Court remands TMT sublease

[PaulW]

Heynow Dory! Play nice.

[Guest]

Maybe some would care to enlighten me as to how this TMT project would help out our homeless or middle class that now live here on the big island?

http://www.civilbeat.com/2015/02/living-...dle-class/

Hopefully Tomk, PaulW, hotpe, and kalakoa you will share your constructive opinions as to how this TMT telescope would better the lives for the majority who live here in puna.

[kalakoa]

how this TMT project would help out our homeless or middle class

If I recall correctly, the economic impact was estimated at $30-35M/year for 10 years.

I sure hope the protectors have an alternate plan for our economy.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Maybe some would care to enlighten me as to how this TMT project would help out our homeless or middle class

Homeless:
* How does living in an area with few jobs help the homeless? Will it help the homeless to not build the TMT so there are even fewer jobs available on the island?

Middle Class:
* How do food stamps help the middle class? They pay for them but can't apply for them.
* How does Section 8 help the middle class? They pay for it but don't qualify.
* How does a Pearl Harbor full of multi-billion dollar ships and submarines help the middle class on a day to day basis? Can they take a tour?

TMT:
* How many dollars do the middle class and homeless have to contribute to the TMT program, or have diverted from programs they can use? ZERO
* How much money will the TMT contribute to middle class families for scholarships? $1 million.


“There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them.”
-Joseph Brodsky

[VancouverIslander]

quote:

---

Originally posted by gypsy69

Maybe some would care to enlighten me as to how this TMT project would help out our homeless or middle class that now live here on the big island?

http://www.civilbeat.com/2015/02/living-...dle-class/

Hopefully Tomk, PaulW, hotpe, and kalakoa you will share your constructive opinions as to how this TMT telescope would better the lives for the majority who live here in puna.

---

You do realize, of course, that the article you linked talks almost exclusively about how Honolulu is un-affordable for the middle class, right? Now, despite what others have said subsequently in answering your question, I'd like to ask this: why is it the responsibility of TMT to do anything for the poor or middle class? It's job is to expand scientific knowledge in the world for the benefit of all. Still, despite their mandate, they provide a million in scholarships as well as many millions in terms of boosting our economy by providing well paying jobs, both during the construction phase as well as during operation. Side benefits include increased service sector jobs to serve the highly paid workers at the observatory since they will spend the bulk of their hard earned cash on the Big Island. If all we do is try to hold every project hostage for whatever we can squeeze out of them, there will be no projects and no jobs and everyone will be relying on welfare.

The best thing for the middle class is to not wait for someone else to do something for us and to forge ahead and do things for ourselves. Once we own a house, we can build equity, borrow from it to buy other houses to rent out to serve the needs of those who can't afford the down payment or cleverly follow the advice on PW to rent before you buy. Everyone wins when you do things like this. REnters have a place to live, you have someone to pay down the mortgage on the rental house while waiting for real estate values to rise. My wife's cousin and her husband did this in Vancouver starting about 40 years ago and now they own more than 20 houses in the hottest real estate market on the planet. They started out very middle class and are now wealthy. There are more millionaires created in real estate than everything else combined. This will work in Puna as well even though it's one of the few spots on the planet where they are making more land.

Sorry for the rant. I strongly believe that we all need to be personally responsible for our own financial well being. Looking to others to provide for us make us weak in a world that demands strength to be successful.

Just call me Mike

[PaulW]

You beat me to it, Mike. It is not the telescope's responsibility to help anyone in particular, it helps everyone by advancing scientific knowledge. Gypsy's posts keep returning to the "but what's in it for me" theme but surely even you can realize how having a $1,400,000,000 project on your doorstep will help and not hurt the local economy and everyone in it.

[kalakoa]

If all we do is try to hold every project hostage for whatever we can squeeze out of them, there will be no projects and no jobs and everyone will be relying on welfare.

Exactly -- but it's not an "if", this is standard operating procedure. Look no further than the building code revisions, no project is too small to avoid the squeeze.

Of course, this isn't a "problem", because taxes can always be raised to cover the additional welfare costs..

how Honolulu is un-affordable for the middle class, right?

Not just the middle class -- anyone notice how that homeless village proposed for Kona works out to over $500/sf? Who can afford that kind of construction cost? Oh, right: us taxpayers.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

gypsy,
Did you know Hawaii is one of only three states where (presumably) middle class seniors have enough money to retire comfortably*?

Bankrate.com report released Monday only seniors in three states are meeting that threshold.
The real kick in the pants is which states: Hawaii, Alaska and South Carolina:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-...09e89f5075

* Due to 20% of those seniors in Hawaii having large state and county funded retirement plans

“There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them.”
-Joseph Brodsky

[kalakoa]

Hawaii exempts social security (and most pensions) from state income tax, which makes it seem more affordable for retirement.

This is borderline off-topic, but seems relevant; economic disruption is coming, so it's really important to diversify the base, ideally with jobs that can't be done by robots.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2016...-hour.html

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

ideally with jobs that can't be done by robots.

But what can't robots do?
Sometimes I suspect even Punaweb members let their android, synth, cylon, or other AI operated helper have at the keyboard when they're tired. I'm not naming names...

“There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them.”
-Joseph Brodsky