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randomq,
If this is the question you are referring to:
"If the ancient Hawaiians had a basalt mine and produced tools for use and trade near the top of the mountain, and the mountain gods have connection to the heavens, why specifically is this telescope a violation of the sacredness of the mountain? And who gets to make that call for all believers? And what about Hawaiians that have converted to Christianity, are their beliefs and culture discounted?"
...then I think it is a very good question. I'm sorry it has been ignored. I think it's for those that oppose the TMT to answer however. I'm not convinced they will, but what a great question!
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This might answer some questions:
http://www.upworthy.com/they-survived-10...ved?c=ufb1
Born&Raised Hawai'i Island
Born&Raised Hawai'i Island
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Here is some information I found about Hawaiian basalt mining on Mauna Kea. Most occurred between 1100-1800 AD, and was abandoned about the time of Western contact when steel axes became available:
On Mauna Kea — and probably such places have been found elsewhere — has been found a quarry, from which must have been taken in ancient times the material for stone axes. Judging from the quantity of chips and debris the amount of material removed from the place was very great. - David Malo
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The quarries extend over an area of approximately 7 1/2 square miles, although most sites are contained in a 1 and 1/2 square mile area between the 11,000 and 12,400 ft elevation.
The degree of specialisation implied and the extent of manufacturing activities at this one locality strongly hint that adze production exceeded local needs and that some adzes made on Mauna Kea were traded outside the island of Hawaii.
Patrick McCoy
Bernice P. Bishop Museum
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Now come new kinds of axes from the lands of the white man. Iron is plentiful now. The stone-ax (koi-pohaku) is laid aside.
Hawaiian Antiquities
by David Malo
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
The way Maunakea looked fifty years ago is much the way she looked 1,000 years ago. Her water, air, and aina has been under siege from mankind( all races and colors) for the past fifty years. Many of Her own people have given up on her or her past, by selling and exploiting her completely. Now new and old protectors have had enough of the ruthless use and expanding, they also have beliefs to go with voices that need to be heard.
P.S. JMO here, The selling of tools near or at the top of MaunaKea by the Hawaiians would have been much less damaging to her resources, if ever aloud in the first place. Thirty meter telescopes and its daily waste for her resources is not what MaunaKea wanted when she first appeared from the middle of the pacific. She helped separate the sunrise from the sunsets and gave life to so much more than just MANkind. We hope she gets to rest in peace and allowed to heal from our mistakes.
Personally I love to see the keiki out protesting for they are the future. Because of mans laws and rules We have limited are ways to be heard, felt, or seen when needing change. Both parents in most families work these days so if they MUST take time off to stand strong for things they believe in, Then Why pay a baby sitter and not educate your own keiki of your beliefs?. The keiki from yesterday, today, and most importantly tomorrow is just one of the many reasons most good people are standing in the cold on MaunaKea today.
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As an aside, it is also my understanding that Canada is contemplating not funding this project. Perhaps their decision is weighed by the article below:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/03/18/thirt...-problems/
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Canada has committed to $243 million to fund construction:
http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/news/loc...pe-project
"...an article published Monday by CBC News that Canada finally committed its share of funds — $243.5 million through 10 years — to help build the telescope."
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HOTPE, you do realize the quarries on Mauna Kea is nothing like the quarries you are used to in the mainland?? The area that article states lasted 1000 years and would've lasted 1000 more. With no impacts great enough to concern Hawaiians who think they are an extension of nature. Its funny and sad actually how many of you go out of your way to somehow disprove Hawaiians and their beliefs and try to make them look bad. So shame dat kine bra.
Born&Raised Hawai'i Island
Born&Raised Hawai'i Island
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And I am not saying none of that isn't true, just stop taking everything out of context to fit your liking.
Born&Raised Hawai'i Island
Born&Raised Hawai'i Island
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This is exactly the complaint I have against modern protesters.
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Its funny and sad actually how many of you go out of your way to somehow disprove Hawaiians and their beliefs and try to make them look bad. So shame dat kine bra.
Two of the three quotes I posted are from David Malo, who is considered a leading Native Hawaiian historian of the Kingdom of Hawaii. If you believe I took his words out of context, here is the complete text of the English translation of his book "Hawaiian Antiquities" (originally written in the Hawaiian language), and you can see for yourself.
http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/pubs-online/pdf/sp2.pdf
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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If a small paragraph out of a book isn't out of context, idk what is.
Born&Raised Hawai'i Island
Born&Raised Hawai'i Island
