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So if one's "desired response" is to change someone's mind about something, or just get them in a cooperative mood, then belligerently hitting them over the head with what one believes to be the truth (even if it really is the truth) buys you absolutely nothing. You've just pushed that person in a box
I've been reading a lot of E O Wilson the last month, he's the father of sociobiology. Here's a quote from his most recent book, The Meaning of Human Existence that may expand on what punafish said above:
In America, for example, it is possible in most places to openly debate different views on religious spirituality - including the nature and even the existence of God, providing it is in the context of theology and philosophy. But it is forbidden to question closely, if at all, the creation myth - the faith - of another person or group. To disparage anything in someone else's sacred creation myth is "religious bigotry." It is taken as the equivalent of a personal threat.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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This aina was claimed by the Tahitians that became Hawaiians. That was in conflict with the Samoan/Tongan Polynesians that were already here. And they in turn were in conflict with the Micronesian Polynesians that were already here. The Micronesian Polynesians had legends about a people that were here before them.
When the Samoan/Tongans landed, they set about killing the Micronesian Polynesians that were there. When the Tahitians landed, they set about killing the Samoan/Tongans (big dispute about who was first). Even the first set of Tahitians that became Hawaiians were largely wiped out or driven off by the Tahitians that came later and what are now considered the koko kanaka maoli. None of these were complete genocide, there was enslavement, and mating, the islands providing many areas for splinter groups to grow without constant conflict. Over time, the second set of Tahitians that became Hawaiians brought island rule under a chief and those chiefs made all the people ohana, although strict caste systems were in place.
The reason for racism is survival. There is now evidence showing that Cro Magnon may have eaten Neanderthal on a large scale, as well as occasionally mating. The Euroamerican survival came from killing most of the indigenous people, taking away their land and resources, and imprisoning them into the most desolate areas of the continent. Clearly, the Amerindian concept of racial survival was not as strong as the Euroamerican. Darwin was totally right, survival of the fittest. And on this planet, the fittest is who wipes out the other first.
"Mahalo nui Pele, 'ae noho ia moku 'aina" - kakahiaka oli
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
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Agree punafish and I hope I don't sound like a know it all who has the answer for these problems. If it seemed like I was telling everyone to listen to me and be quiet, I am very sorry. I totally realize that talking about topics like this over a screen with no face or name to direct it to makes no sense.
Interacting, socializing, experiencing and living it is the way to go.
Born&Raised Hawai'i Island
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Southernmost, I was talking about ALL of us, not you in particular.
I agree, meeting people face to face and seeing their humanity in the flesh can make all the difference in the world. When someone shows you a kindness and you return that kindness, it's much easier to look past each others' differences, even appreciate them. I went to Japan 28 years ago filled with prejudice, stereotypes and misconceptions. I left ten years later with a Japanese wife, some of the best friends anyone could ask for, and a better understanding of my own culture.
Living in Hawaii has been a similar experience. The friendships we've made here are far more valuable than any material possession we have. (That's how I'm rationalizing my move here and I'm sticking to it.)
Hope we get to meet one day, Southernmost.
Tim
A superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions--Confucius
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The "Hawaiian Nation" is so never going to happen...Buying into it is just a waste of people's time and energy
Rodarupian
Civilization exists by geologic consent, subject to change without notice...Will Durant
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I knew that punafish
, and thank you for your knowledge that I did take in and made me come to that realization. It sounds like you are experiencing and feeling all what Hawaii is about. (In my mind). Aloha
Born&Raised Hawai'i Island
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It always was, and always will be a Hawaiian Nation. It was ended illegally. Ua mau ke ea o ka aina i ka pono!
No worry dakine, I get your back
http://youtu.be/yTsANaXp4hM
http://youtu.be/7BqZPLNoaos
How would they(our kupuna, our ancestors) feel?
Power of the people is da piko!
Born&Raised Hawai'i Island
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I think there may be deep differences in communication styles that makes any discourse challenging. On one side is an expectation for silence and a receiving of wisdom without question or comment. On the other is a tradition of analytical inquiry where understanding is achieved through questioning and debate. Bring them together and misunderstandings seem almost inevitable.
FWIW, there were no debates over Pele, origin stories, or an attempt to change anyone's mind. Rather there was a backlash against any counter views on diversion, even those that were based in fact and stated politely. The intimidation tactics involved were questionable if an open dialogue is desired. Given the possible cultural differences above that may not be the goal at all.
Online forums cut both ways; they provide anonymity for bad intent and safe speech depending on the community at hand. Given some of what I've seen recently we should recognize the unique and valuable resource Punaweb is especially during these times of change.
Ironyak,
You are here a LOT these days ... I would like to ask a question please ...
What does your handle mean ? For us and to you please.
mahalo,
pog
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Ha!
I think I've got it figured out. Hint: Like any other pseudonym it's an acronym numerologically born from the depths of the subconscious.
Un Mojado Sin Licencia
Un Mojado Sin Licencia
