Hawaiian DNA in soil atop Mauna Kea?

[kalakoa]

Why do we care about DNA that may or may not be in a cinder cone?

Depends. Is it "white" DNA, or some shade of "brown"?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Is it "white" DNA, or some shade of "brown"?

While we might determine whether the DNA was left by a brown person or a white person - - or a yellow, red or black person, we can't determine if it was from a live person or a dead person. That's the crucial point if a claim is made that DNA discovered in soil is indisputable proof that the soil was a graveyard.

DNA remnants dropped by live humans on Mauna Kea do not validate theories or ideas about the summit as a burial ground. Even if Mauna Kea's summit may have been a burial site in one form or another in the past, DNA found in the soil there would not prove that assertion. Because... live people visited and left the summit during those times as well.

On the fifth day - the scientists who studied the rivers - were forbidden to speak - or to study the rivers. -Jane Hirshfield's poem on creation

[ohiagrrl]

Mermaid, we have many stories like that, not just remains but stones too. Thanks so much for talking story with no fear of being judged by the elitist crowd!
Carey, the procedures have never been followed to the letter of the law on top of this mountain which is well documented so quite illegal in most instances of Western Law and completely Kapu in Hawaiian tradition. This is Mauna a Wakea not some beach. Of course bones are all over this island but the Mauna Kea Science Park falls within a Historic Preservation Zone which means the Western laws are more stringent then most anywhere else on Big Island and in regards to this conversation, it is all I personally am talking about, sorry for confusion but thanks for adding precision.

PW, you could insult 8 differnt nationalities and hit the mark with this author so have at it. If you insult my mother it's a different story. The valid question you asked however, was what would a mutual solution look like? Since the mathematical theory that a closed Universe is in conflict with the proven physics of space time, going back in time still has no working theory, but the mistakes of the past must be examined to find solutions and be ammended. I am not sure it is possible, it may just be a bad marriage, personality types, but it seems that a natural emmissary that the Astronomy Park had within its fold was treated roughly because of her family traditions. She was underestimated and became the rock star in the Protector Movement, who have developed some real power despite all the elitist guffawing. She should be approached to see if she would consider being Hawaiian Oversight Chairwoman in Mauna Kea affairs. Full circle. TMT's only peaceful path forward is to show they are better than their predecessors.

The great thing about anthropological testing BH is it can provide a more complete story despite centuries old assumptions. Cool story about the seeds. I've often wondered if the Menehune were somehow related to Pygmy tribes of Africa. The "popolo" you mentioned were probably assumed African slaves but what if they weren't? What if the assumed timeline is all wrong? Hawaii Island is at least a million years in the making. Bulldozing cinder cones up on the mountain is one way to ensure we may never know. The Menehune were known to poulate the higher elevations and come down in raiding parties.

[kalakoa]

the procedures have never been followed to the letter of the law

Not to snark, but that's just how things are done here. Local tradition and all that.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

I've often wondered if the Menehune were somehow related to Pygmy tribes of Africa.

Or perhaps they were the ancestors of homo floresiensis, the 3'-4' tall early human inhabitants of Flores Island in present day Indonesia. They may have set out on small rafts intentionally or by accident, and 50,000 years ago arrived on the shores of Hawaii:
http://humanorigins.si.edu/research/asia...-indonesia

On the fifth day - the scientists who studied the rivers - were forbidden to speak - or to study the rivers. -Jane Hirshfield's poem on creation

[leilaniguy]

I think in this case "popolo" refers to the berries.

[PaulW]

A little (very little) learning is a dangerous thing.
There I go being all "elitist" again.

[ohiagrrl]

HOT, nice data. LDude, LOL. Kalakoa, true but that could all change regarding the mountaintop very soon and if those Western laws are going to be taken seriously, Judge Amano should rule for the Protectors and TMT should have a contingency of ammelioration lined up. In that case, TMT would literally have nothing to lose by trying for a Hail Mary.

PW, I was not talking about you when using the word elitist.

[kalakoa]

if those Western laws are going to be taken seriously

"Western" style means a takeover, just like the CONUS. History, anyone?

[ohiagrrl]

[quote]Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge

Is it "white" DNA, or some shade of "brown"?

While we might determine whether the DNA was left by a brown person or a white person - - or a yellow, red or black person, we can't determine if it was from a live person or a dead person. That's the crucial point if a claim is made that DNA discovered in soil is indisputable proof that the soil was a graveyard.

DNA remnants dropped by live humans on Mauna Kea do not validate theories or ideas about the summit as a burial ground. Even if Mauna Kea's summit may have been a burial site in one form or another in the past, DNA found in the soil there would not prove that assertion. Because... live people visited and left the summit during those times as well."





While there may be some similarities as with forensic dna testing for living tissue (as in crime scenes), the Forbes article talks about a process specific to determining the age and genus left in specs of soil dating back some tens of thousands of years ago. Since Hawaii Island is possibly more than a million years old it strikes me that the interior of dormant cinder cones in relevant locations would be the best chance of finding these "messy" fragments. From Forbes:

New technological advances in DNA sequencing have made these sorts of studies possible, allowing tiny fragments of DNA from “messy” samples to be captured, amplified, organized, and identified. With this advanced technology now shown to work in archaeological settings, there is a whole new world of early human genetic research to explore. Co-author Svante Pääbo explains, "This shows that DNA analyses of sediments are a very useful archaeological procedure, which may become routine in the future."