Rat Lungworm on organic farms debate renews

[rainyjim]

If you are a certified organic producer, any method of rat or mouse control that you plan on using needs to be approved by your certifying agency and written into your organic system plan. There are two materials that are allowed for rodent control in organic production For rodent control those are sulfur dioxide (smoke bombs), and Vitamin D3 (Cholecalciferol) is listed as an allowed synthetic material for rodent pest control. Cholecalciferol-containing rodenticides produce hypercalcemia, making it an effective poison. Rodents generally die within two days following ingestion and do not appear to exhibit bait shyness. However, care should be used when placing this bait, particularly where dogs and young male cats are present, both of which are somewhat indiscriminate in their eating habits.

National Organic Program standards:
§ 205.206 Crop pest, weed, and disease management practice standard.
(a) The producer must use management practices to prevent crop pests, weeds, and diseases including but not limited to:
(1) Crop rotation and soil and crop nutrient management practices, as provided for in §§ 205.203 and 205.205;
(2) Sanitation measures to remove disease vectors, weed seeds, and habitat for pest organisms; and
(3) Cultural practices that enhance crop health, including selection of plant species and varieties with regard to suitability to site-specific conditions and resistance to prevalent pests, weeds, and diseases.
(b) Pest problems may be controlled through mechanical or physical methods including but not limited to:
(1) Augmentation or introduction of predators or parasites of the pest species;
(2) Development of habitat for natural enemies of pests;
(3) Nonsynthetic controls such as lures, traps, and repellents…
(e) When the practices provided for in paragraphs (a) through (d) of this section are insufficient to prevent or control crop pests, weeds, and diseases, a biological or botanical substance or a substance included on the National List of synthetic substances allowed for use in organic crop production may be applied to prevent, suppress, or control pests, weeds, or diseases: Provided, That, the conditions for using the substance are documented in the organic system plan.

§ 205.601 Synthetic substances allowed for use in organic crop production.
In accordance with restrictions specified in this section, the following synthetic substances may be used in organic crop production: Provided, that, use of such substances do not contribute to contamination of crops, soil, or water. Substances allowed by this section, except disinfectants and sanitizers in paragraph (a) and those substances in paragraphs ©, (j), (k), and (l) of this section, may only be used when the provisions set forth in Sec. 205.206(a) through (d) prove insufficient to prevent or control the target pest….(g) As rodenticides.
(1) Sulfur dioxide—underground rodent control only (smoke bombs).
(2) Vitamin D3.

§205.602 Nonsynthetic substances prohibited for use in organic crop production.
The following nonsynthetic substances may not be used in organic crop production…to treat a physiological disorder associated with calcium uptake.
(a) Arsenic…
(h) Strychnine.
(i) Tobacco dust (nicotine sulfate).

https://www.ams.usda.gov/grades-standard...-standards

I will note here that while this limits organic producers options for control of rodents, it does not preclude any higher incidence of rodent infestation on organic farms than on conventional farms to interpret this information in this way would be a false equivalence.

I will admit I kind of forgot what it was you were arguing about specifically while I was reading about the subject. I hope this information helps your nitpicking.

Also I agree with other posters that organic is a clever marketing term. Organic also uses pesticides and chemicals (everything is a chemical; H2O=water, NaCl=salt, etc).

[Slow Walker]

You might want to check out this video. Make sure you hit the "show more" button to explain why it circles around. This has worked before in the years past but has just been refurbished. When something keeps moving or moves just now and then it keeps insects and of course RATS off course.
O this isnt me. Just someone I know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3T1ed8q33k

[MarkD]

From rainyjim: I will note here that while this limits organic producers options for control of rodents, it does not preclude any higher incidence of rodent infestation on organic farms than on conventional farms to interpret this information in this way would be a false equivalence.

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Thanks for your information. I will withhold a question on the exact meaning of your statement, sensing that you have offered all the information you are inclined to give.

We are still awaiting possible information from an agricultural expert on the simple question of whether organic farms offer a more hospitable environment to rats than do commercial farms.

It appears we have been informed that rat abatement options on organic farms are more limited than on commercial farms.

[Wailua Boy]

Keep in mind that organic farmers are allowed by the regulations that apply to organic farming to apply rodenticides.

[Eric1600]

The problem isn't so much rat control, but slug control. The researchers that have looked into the infection rates show most slugs are infected. Fighting over the minutiae of rat populations on organic vs non-organic farm is too far down the rabbit hole to be important. But let's spend another 10,000 words of speculation on it please.

[MarkD]

From Eric: But let's spend another 10,000 words of speculation on it please.

It is not just the topic but the history of the debate. About 6 months ago a newbie (me) made what would be considered by most anyone to be an innocuous comment about organic farms--a comment subsequently bolstered by a Star Advertiser statement.

I was assertively challenged on my comment by a Punatalk old-timer at that time, and then yesterday that poster unnecessary re-raised the issue in a weak attempt at insult. A certain number of old-timers regularly make unwarranted challenges to other people, mostly newbies.

The motivation of the old-timers appears to be a combination of three things: 1) humor at periodic newbie needling (not a big deal but worth citing), 2) old-timers being chronic know-it-alls and 3) old-timers who are adamant TMT supporters apparently being in such a general state of irritation because of the TMT protests that they go to non-TMT threads and get huffy with the posters there.

Hopefully this debate will proceed to a definitive answer.

In closing, I note your "please" request. Not to be rude, but if you find a thread bothersome, you can always elect not to come on it. And I originated the topic. I would not dominate someone else's thread, but it seems authors ought to have some latitude.

[terracore]

"There are two materials that are allowed for rodent control in organic production For rodent control those are sulfur dioxide (smoke bombs), and Vitamin D3 (Cholecalciferol) is listed as an allowed synthetic material for rodent pest control."

Are the salt-based poisons allowed? I understand that they may not be considered synthetic. I've seen them for sale at the feed stores. They are very expensive but apparently kill via hypernatremia.

[Durian Fiend]

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkD

[i]

Hopefully this debate will proceed to a definitive answer.

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Why? I fail to see the point.

BTW, it did.

"Fighting over the minutiae of rat populations on organic vs non-organic farm is too far down the rabbit hole to be important."

[PaulW]

It's only ever a matter of time before Markd brings up the telescope yet again. He mentions it repeatedly in a thread on helicopters and now in Rats vs Organic Farming. Obsessive. I still don't know if he's for or against, but telescopes appear awfully elitist to some.

[PaulW]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...ats_2.html

Maybe Hotpe is a lumberjack and he's okay. Wait, that was BC.