is the Mauna Kea blockade ethical?

[Guest]

Another way of looking at it: It ain't none of your business.

[kalakoa]

Existing laws

Hawaiian Homes Commission Act of 1921.

It ain't none of your business

It became my business when I was forced to pay for it.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

It ain't none of your business.

Does it cost me money in taxes?
Yes.
Do I pay taxes?
Yes.
Then it's my business.

Perhaps you could suggest a tax free protest to the campers, so it's none of our business.

[BillyB]

I think the Hawaiians have a legitimate gripe, but their battle is in the wrong place. It's like if the Allies had invaded Ecuador instead of Normandy to defeat the Germans in WW2.

Perhaps DHHL's doorstep would be a better place to camp for starters. I would also suspect the real exploiters are happy to have them wear themselves out chanting to the wind.

[Punaperson]

BillyB: Perhaps DHHL's doorstep would be a better place to camp for starters. I would also suspect the real exploiters are happy to have them wear themselves out chanting to the wind.

I've thought the same thing from the beginning of the MK access road blockade - a misguided use of energies.

[kalakoa]

DHHL makes its money by leasing commercial real estate. Uncertainty devalues that real estate, resulting in less money for DHHL. Brilliant!

[Guest]

Kalakoa - I was forced to pay for it... Mr Edge - Does it cost me money in taxes? Then it's my business...

I think you both are misguided in your assumptions. When one considers...

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceded_lands

In 1959, the U.S. Congress passed the Hawaii Admission Act. Effective upon Hawaii's admission into the Union, the U.S. transferred the majority of Government and Crown lands to the State of Hawaii, including the HHCA lands, which assumed the role of trustee as a condition of statehood. Under pressure from the federal government, the new State of Hawaii leased a total of 30,176.185 acres back to the U.S. for sixty-five years for a dollar for each lease. Section 5(f) of the Admission Act establishes the state's responsibilities in relation to those lands as follows: "the proceeds from the sale or other disposition of any such lands and the income therefrom, shall be held by said State as a public trust for the support of public schools and other educational institutions, for the betterment of the conditions of native Hawaiians, as defined in the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act, 1920, as amended, for the development of farm and home ownership on as widespread a basis as possible for the making of public improvements, and for the provision of lands for public use."

Almost twenty years later, delegates to the 1978 State of Hawaii Constitutional Convention acknowledged that little attention had been given to the trust language in Section 5(f) especially as it related to Native Hawaiians, and added new sections to the State Constitution to implement the trust provisions. They created the Office of Hawaiian Affairs (OHA), and directed that OHA was to receive the income and proceeds derived from a pro rata portion of the trust revenue. In addition, Article XII, Section 6, of the Constitution "requires the OHA Trustees to manage and administer income and proceeds from a variety of sources, including a pro rata portion of the public land trust"

I don't think this has anything to do with your taxes (property, excise, licensing, fees...). The tax, if that is what you want to call it, was determined long ago and the money has never belonged to state. And, it certain has nothing to do with your sacred taxes. The shame, imo, is that state has not been clear, and not paid anywhere near the amount due.

From: https://www.civilbeat.org/2018/12/oha-wa...the-state/

"The Office of Hawaiian Affairs says the annual cap of $15.1 million is too low and that state agencies should do a better job reporting their revenues..."

And, on top of all that, they only get $15mil? A drop in the bucket, barely a drop. No, from my perspective there's no place for folks who are not directly a part of that dance to bitch about anything but the way the Hawaiian people have been disrespected by state.

But don't get me wrong, I know there are many effected by, and feel strongly about, the way OHA manages its affairs. Many who wish it to be otherwise, and are working to make that so. Who, as many do, feel that OHA has not lived up to their mission. But, I believe, even though they are working through their differences, and wish strongly for change, they equally would not take kindly to others meddling in their affairs.

And, again, from my perspective, the real shame is that folks that like to bitch, as you two so obviously do, don't focus their concerns on the state, and demand that they pay the Hawaiians their due. Maybe if they did we wouldn't have the problems we have today.

[kalakoa]

I don't think this has anything to do with your taxes

https://dhhl.hawaii.gov/legislative-brie...on/budget/

Gov. Ige requested a little over $25 million a year in general funds and $25 million a year in general obligation bonds to fund DHHL’s efforts over the next two fiscal years.

"General funds" come from the taxpayers, of which I am one. $25M is almost $20 per citizen. GIve me a say in how DHHL is run, or give me back my money.

betterment of the conditions of native Hawaiians, as defined in the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act, 1920, as amended, for the development of farm and home ownership

It should be abundantly clear that this is not happening, and a 99-year lease is not "ownership", even if you live long enough to survive the waiting list.

Separately: for less time/money than a DHHL lease, anyone (Hawaiian or otherwise) could homestead a lot in one of the vast "private" subdivisions. Is this not happening, or are we just not hearing about it? The point I'm (indirectly) raising here is: seems like "some" people would rather wait indefinitely for their "entitlement" when they could easily skip the DHHL waitlist-for-a-lease scam in favor of actual home ownership. Don't say "because they can't afford it", because the DHHL requirements are even less affordable.

In1959 ... the new State of Hawaii leased a total of 30,176.185 acres back to the U.S. for sixty-five years

1959 + 65 = 2024. What happens then?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Who, as many do, feel that OHA has not lived up to their mission.

hokuili,
You have connected zero dots.
The people at Mauna Kea Access Road are barely "disrespected by state,"*1 when compared with how they are ignored by OHA & DHHL. How will camping in a public roadway and delaying construction of a telescope change OHA & DHHL? It won't. If anything OHA & DHHL are delighted the distraction places blame elsewhere, anywhere except where it properly belongs.

In the meantime, like others who pick an enemy out of thin air, protestors loudly bark out accusations against a person, group, or organization, which only creates a bond in their followers as a community, but doesn't solve a single problem. The dysfunction between Native Hawaiians, OHA, and DHHL continues"even though they are working through their differences, and wish strongly for change,"*1 as it was in the beginning, is now, and shall be forever and ever, Amen.*2

Stopping the TMT will not get the campers a functional OHA, an efficient DHHL, or a homestead on which Native Hawaiians can live. It connects no dots which can create a means to an end.

*1 - hokuili
*2 - God

[Obie]

Hawaiians confronting Hawaiians over the blocked road.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUK7qfNN-tk&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR1jG4KBvtoxn27daswxrXV-qCrhNqDCTLKmbJRfRUsHkAsUGyicakc_J04