EBT, WIC, Welfare, Oh My! Punafare?

[loffelkopffl]

"the hippy wantabes" ?

if my recollection serves me hippies were the people who wanted to drop out of the system and if there are any left, they have

[haoleboy]

Aloha check!

Richwhiteboy

"The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem."- Milton Friedman

[haoleboy]

Just trying to keep the aloha up!
Aloha
Richwhiteboy

"A lot of fellows nowadays have a B.A., M.D., or P.h.D. Unfortunately, they don't have a J.O.B."- Fats Domino

[Rob L]

Their are ethically challenged people at all levels of society. The truth is that rich tax cheats cost the system more than welfare cheats. It simple math, you can only get so much out of welfare, but the rich can cheat the taxman out of huge sums, because they have huge sums. But, most people are honest, and it is good to have enough enforcment to keep us that way.


Aloha,
Rob L

[Hazen]

More great wisdom, thank you all for such level-headed thoughts.

BTW I am willing to bet that everyone on PunaWeb is much, much more likely to crucify a kin-niving (sp?) white collar fat cat, using tax shelters and slave labor than a dubious aid-skate anyday.

Also don't worry, i don't think anyone is planning on turning anyone on in anytime soon. I think the concern was that contemporaries and community members might be doing something unethical and hypocritical. Not that laws were being broken, or anyone was getting cheated out of anything personally. White collar crime, its detection, enforcement, and lack of real sentencing are probably much less in doubt as to their deplorability.

h-

[Hotzcatz]

Aloha Punatics,

I wonder how corporations fit into this. They are an "entity" by law, yet have no morals whatsoever and their only goal is to make money. They don't die and they will eat their own young - or at least their own employees - if it will make more money. You can't sue the people running them, either, so that gives them another insulative layer should they cause grief in their quest for more profits.

On another note, what with all the increase in property values, folks have been re-mortgaging and pulling the equity out. I've heard that at this time there is even less equity in America than before the huge run-up in prices. A large portion of our economy has been supported by these equity fueled consumers as well as the employees in the building frenzy to make money on the rising house prices. What happens when the prices fall? Consumerism falls, less stuff being bought = less employees needed to make it, employees in the construction trades are laid off, unemployment goes up and soon a lot of these folks will be looking for food stamps and other forms of welfare.

How about the folks who bought houses at overinflated prices on an adjustable rate mortgage. They figured the prices would continue to go up and they could sell at a profit? They can only afford the $1,800 a month payment they started with or maybe just a bit more, but if they could afford more, they probably would have gotten the fixed rate mortgage in the first place. The price of gas goes up and it costs them a couple hundred more to get to work each month, the interest rate goes up and it costs them a couple hundred more each month to pay the mortgage. This is with two incomes, so the first time one of them gets sick and unable to work, or the car needs repair or anything unforseen happens, they will need welfare. Can you get welfare if you own a house? You can't file bankruptcy anymore to get out from under what is owed, you still owe it even if you go bankrupt.

I think in the next several years, anyone who can come up with a big chunk of change will be able to buy out some of these soon-to-be distressed properties at really discounted rate.

Oh, Hazen, the reason you may be seeing the folks in Puna buying groceries like the way they do in poorer neighborhoods on the mainland is because Puna is the poorer neighborhood around here. I don't think Hawaii island has any true "slums" although some small parts of Oahu come close. Ka'u doesn't have the same population density so even though it might be "poorer" it is more diluted.

There also isn't all that much social stigmatizm about getting goverment handouts here. If they want to give stuff away, why not take it?

Anyway, enough typing now, my coffee cup is empty.

A hui hou,
Cathy

[Hazen]

A sad fact in America is that corporations have more protect rights by law, on the books than private citizens do. The flashy Bill of Rights is great, but most don't realize that corporations with their tax loop holes, shelters, coprorate welfare and subsidies, and anonymous nature allow such limited liability to their top members that we as citizens are truly second-class citizens, a bona-fide lower caste. Big buisnesses are necesarry to technology, large projects, portions of our economy, and our stability in the globeal economy. Unfortunately, the concentration of wealth and power represented by them today has led to the inevitable: corruption.

Only difference, you can chastise your neighbors, society can stigmatize wrongdoers, but how does that work with corporations. They are rarely critical of each other, and god knows unless you're a majority shareholder, most could care less about anyone who doesn't affect their profits.

[Rob L]

A small correction, you can indeed sue he people who run corporations. Many very wealthy law frims have gotten that way suing the people who run corporations. The corporations almost always pay the legal fees and judgments, but when the corporation goes bust, it is the executives, board members and auditors who lose their mansions (a la Enron.) When you do have a law suit against a large coropration, you are better off than you are with a law suit against an individual. They can't run to Mexico, and they are always well insured. There is nobody lawyers prefer to sue.

Aloha,
Rob L

[haoleboy]

Are we discussing lawyers now?
Aloha
Richwhiteboy

"Let's kill all the lawyers."- William Shakespeare

[KeithLee]

LOL. Let's see.
EBT - Yep we've used it. wasn't hard to get. Wife had baby 1 1/2 months early. Couldnt work. Yada yada. Got us through some rough months. Is it easy to abuse..oh yeah.
WIC - Yep we have gotten it for the past year. Provides formula which is $15 a can last 4 days on average. Too bad they don't give out diapers.
Welfare - Yep off and on as a kid. Social Security checks, etc. Foods stamps. I'd hate to even imagine how much worse my childhood would have been without the system.
We don't live on it but we do use it when it is "necessary". Whether it is necessary or not is determined by the system. Is the system flawed? Yep.
Am I gonna get all excited about whether someone else likes it or not? Nope.
I'd give you 2 cents but I don't have an EBT card.

"You wouldn't worry about what other people are thinking about you if you knew how little they actually do." Not sure whose quote that us.