Government beach road from Hawaiian beaches to fou

[Wao nahele kane]

Spunky,
“Argue”… try elucidating. Perhaps you could explain what a “private subdivision” is? Would it mean all other subdivisions are public subdivisions or are there other like type classifications too?


E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.

[csgray]

Virtually all the subdivisions in Puna are "private" which means they were large blocks of land developed by platting them out, bulldozing roads (more or less depending on the developer) and then lots ranging from 7000 square feet to 3 acres were sold to individuals with no public investment or ownership in any infrastructure. In most other places a developer may pay for all or part of the infrastructure like roads, parks, and sewers, but then those improvements are signed over to the local governmental body and become "public".

In Puna and Ka'u these subdivisions were initially marketed on the mainland and in Japan as a way to "own a piece of Paradise", so a subdivision several miles from the ocean ends up named Black Sands Beach. I saw an early advertising flyer for Hawaiian Acres that referenced a golf course, riding trails and stables. In many cases, the developers of these lots and Hawaii County didn't think anyone would ever actually try to live in these subdivisions, so no provisions were made to provide services. Some of these subdivisions even had no mechanism for road maintenance, while others like HPP were set up in such a way that the home owners' association is strictly limited to charging fees for road maintenance but cannot charge residents for other services like running water lines, park construction or maintenance. Hawaiian Beaches/Shores/Recreation Estates had 3 or 4 different developers which is why HSRE has piped water, a park, and CCRs and the others don't. This situation makes for a unique patchwork of jurisdiction over things like roads, Hawaii county only recently passed new rules authorizing the cops to do traffic enforcement in private subdivisions for offenses like speeding.

Carol

[Kahunascott]

quote:

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Originally posted by csgray

Virtually all the subdivisions in Puna are "private" which means they were large blocks of land developed by platting them out, bulldozing roads (more or less depending on the developer) and then lots ranging from 7000 square feet to 3 acres were sold to individuals with no public investment or ownership in any infrastructure. In most other places a developer may pay for all or part of the infrastructure like roads, parks, and sewers, but then those improvements are signed over to the local governmental body and become "public".

In Puna and Ka'u these subdivisions were initially marketed on the mainland and in Japan as a way to "own a piece of Paradise", so a subdivision several miles from the ocean ends up named Black Sands Beach. I saw an early advertising flyer for Hawaiian Acres that referenced a golf course, riding trails and stables. In many cases, the developers of these lots and Hawaii County didn't think anyone would ever actually try to live in these subdivisions, so no provisions were made to provide services. Some of these subdivisions even had no mechanism for road maintenance, while others like HPP were set up in such a way that the home owners' association is strictly limited to charging fees for road maintenance but cannot charge residents for other services like running water lines, park construction or maintenance. Hawaiian Beaches/Shores/Recreation Estates had 3 or 4 different developers which is why HSRE has piped water, a park, and CCRs and the others don't. This situation makes for a unique patchwork of jurisdiction over things like roads, Hawaii county only recently passed new rules authorizing the cops to do traffic enforcement in private subdivisions for offenses like speeding.



Carol
Not True,
Hawaiian Beaches/Shores/Recreation all have piped water.

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If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it cost when it’s free...now here come the taxes.....

[csgray]

Scott,
I looked at several houses in Beaches that had catchment systems about 4 years ago, so I assumed Beaches wasn't part of the water system. I also know at one point fairly recently there was a moratorium on new meters in some parts of the subdivision. However, only HSRE pays for and has access to the pool and has CCRs because the developer of that part of the subdivision set it up that way, while the other developers did things differently.

My main points about private subdivisions and the patchwork of jurisdiction still stand.

Carol

[Kahunascott]

quote:

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Originally posted by csgray

Scott,
I looked at several houses in Beaches that had catchment systems about 4 years ago, so I assumed Beaches wasn't part of the water system. I also know at one point fairly recently there was a moratorium on new meters in some parts of the subdivision. However, only HSRE pays for and has access to the pool and has CCRs because the developer of that part of the subdivision set it up that way, while the other developers did things differently.

My main points about private subdivisions and the patchwork of jurisdiction still stand.

Carol

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.
So if you knew there was a moratorium on new meters in some parts of the subdivision did you think the meters were on catchment tanks?
And, thank god we have no CC&R's or the yearly maintenance fees that go with them. In Hawaiian Beaches we have our own water system and yet live on County Rds.

If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it cost when it’s free...now here come the taxes.....

[spunky]

Well put Carol. The majority of subdivisions in Puna ARE private and have the issues regarding roads and infrastructure that you mentioned. Try getting the county to improve a road in HPP or some (not all) of the other subdivisions and they will tell you the roads are private and not under their purview. It is the reason HPP does not have county water, paved side roads, street lights, home postal delivery, and myriad other infrastructure needs. Hell, even Dominic Yagong spelled it out very c-l-e-a-r-l-y in a recent dscussion reported in the paper and when have you ever heard a politician speak clearly?

This is something that has been detailed in the press and at community meetings for many years and thus I thought was common knowledge. wao nahele kane implies that they have been researching issues here for 30 years as part of their career so I figured they knew that already.

[csgray]

Scott,
I am not sure why you keep harping on one tiny detail about one subdivision, my post was an answer to a question about what a "private" subdivision is in the context of Puna. I used one subdivision that was developed in strips by multiple developers, with different rules and conditions for each, as an example of the patchwork of jurisdictions caused by this pattern of development. I was not endorsing any part of that area over any other, nor was I endorsing the CCrs and maintenance fees of HSRE over the relative free for all of Beaches, just using it as an example. Let's face it, the layout of that area is very odd, you enter into a whole different subdivision just by crossing a painted line, and suddenly the rules and fees are different, yet that subdivision can only be reached by driving through one or two other subdivisions.

"So if you knew there was a moratorium on new meters in some parts of the subdivision did you think the meters were on catchment tanks?"

Don't insult my intelligence just to be snide, it makes you look petty. Obviously catchment tanks wouldn't have meters, but if there is a moratorium on new meters, then new houses would not have access to the piped water, so in fact not everyone has piped water if there is still a moratorium on new meters, which would explain the fairly new house with a catchment tank I looked at in Beaches 3 years ago.

My main points about private subdivisions and the patchwork of jurisdiction still stand.

Carol

[chandler]

Paving the Road to Waa-Waa: Let's get real. Fred Blas wants to pave it because he and his wife represent money interests who want to develop Waa-Waa. Now that he's on the County Council, Blas can implement their plan to get rich.[]

Chandler Price

[PaulW]

Wow, thanks for that breaking news, Chandler. But, how exactly do you know that? Have you informed the newspapers?
Or do you just want it to be true?

[Kapohocat]

Although I can not confirm Chandler's info - what Chandler shared about development could have a grain of truth. The current subdivision process requires road improvements to the current standards - paved 50' wide I believe.

If WaaWaa was paved it would, it would as SB would say save any developer as SB would say a "buttload" of money.

Has any one seen any subdivision signs in the area?