Gambling in Hawaii

[macuu222]

quote:

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Originally posted by PaulW

I like living near a casino. You get subsidised food, sometimes free drinks, lots of acts turn up to perform, the state even receives some huge voluntary tax payments - if they play their cards right.

The millions of dollars going towards Las Vegas are such a waste, keep it here!

It's worth the risk.

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I agree Paul. The state should give it a try.

[PaulW]

There are a lot of sad stories about alcohol and how that's ruined lives and marriages, but would you be in favor of banning that, or keeping it banned if this was the 1920s?

[centipede]

I lit the fuse on this topic, so here's a bit more... I know someone who trashed a lifelong friendship over a hundred dollar bill. Basically, he borrowed it and never paid it back. He is a pathetic creature whom I haven't seen in 10 years. At that time, he had a wife and 2 beautiful children who suffered because of his sickness. One time, he was at the airport in Las Vegas, waiting to return home, and he was so hung up on the slot machines that they had to call him over the intercom. So I am not unaware of the sickness and how it ruins lives. But the bottom line is that gambling did not make him sick. Rather, it was something that was part of his being and if casinos did not exist, he and his family would be no better because he would (and does) indulge in illegal gambling and just like illegal drugs, the only winners are the criminals who often cheat the gambler and poison the drug user with products the FDA, with all of its flaws, would never allow.

[peteadams]

"...the bottom line is that gambling did not make him sick. Rather, it was something that was part of his being and if casinos did not exist, he and his family would be no better..."

Centipede points out the basic problem with anecdotal evidence, what we happen to observe or hear about. This is true in so many important social issues. All the sad stories about people unable to control their gambling can not describe the general reality of gambling's effects on society. That happens when you gather broad evidence and evaluate that evidence on good technical grounds. We most often notice the spectacular or dramatic incidents but remain uninformed of the behavior of the rest of the population. Much as we are very aware of a terrible traffic accident, we have little knowledge of overall traffic behavior until we see the statistics. It would be quite surprising if the great bulk of people who indulge in gambling are damaged by it.

Of course, beyond the statistics of any particular issue we have to decide if, whatever the statistics say, that we want to pursue one policy or another. In the case of traffic accidents, we have decided (this may actually be changing recently!) that more highways, more vehicles and more accidents are acceptable tradeoffs for the utter convenience of personal vehicles. In the case of gambling we may decide, as Centipede points out, that even if some individuals have extreme difficulties that may be an acceptable tradeoff for the revenue generated by the mathematically-impaired.

If Hawaii does go for gambling then strict oversight, intense auditing and complete transparency are fundamental requirements in my opinion. I would put any gambling operation into a public non-profit entity with complete openness of accounts and disbursements. Keep the private sector away. The only group that benefits from lack of openness is the crooks. Down the road it would be funny if after the account books of gambling establishments were completely open and the bulk of the people, the non-addicts, seeing the flow of money away from them, would stop bothering with gambling and cause the industry to simply die on the vine.

[MarkP]

Gambling doesn't create money. If you look only at Hawaii residents, then the money we are talking about is only the money they already had. It is a given that on average money will flow from the gambling public to the casinos and whoever has their hand in the game on the receiving end, such as the state government if it is set up that way. The big question is what the gamblers would have done with that money if they hadn't lost it gambling. If they would have paid rent or mortgages, bought food and health care and other essentials, and if after losing they can no longer afford these things, then that is a big cost of doing business that society will be very hard pressed to make up for with the small share that the state will get. If the average gambler falls into this category then we know from the get go that gambling is a losing proposition. It can't be otherwise. If on the other hand the average gambler loses a sufficient amount of money that he would otherwise have spent on a hummer or a giant TV, then there is a chance of coming out ahead.

If we consider that gamblers might come from other states to lose their money here, then Hawaii might benefit but only at the expense of other states or countries. Society as a whole would still probably lose unless the majority of gamblers were only losing their disposable income.

If most gamblers only lose disposable income and stop there then I might almost favor gambling as a way of taxing the hell out of people who clearly don't have good money sense and would probably squander their money anyway. I just don't believe that most gamblers gamble responsibly. This is based on my gut feeling about human nature, not based on any sound analysis of gambling so maybe I am wrong.

[Jon]

Casinos provide a service just like a night club or bar... or dope dealers...


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I do not believe that America is better than everybody else...
America "IS" everybody else.
HBAT

[Dave M]

Casinos provide a service just like a night club or bar... or dope dealers...

Yeah Jon, but I don't think anyone is arguing that point. My thought are that if Hawaii only passes "para mutual gambling" such as lotto and horse tracks etc..like we have in TX I think that would be very detrimental to the local economy. A friend of mine here calls the lottery an idiot tax. And he's right the money comes right out of the pockets of those that don't have money to loose.

On the other hand if there are casinos then that would be another story in that you would definitely gain from tourism. I know they may have gambling on some of the tour boats but they are limited and regulated depending on where they are on the ocean.. I think. Bringing full-on casinos to Hawaii would change the face of the islands for sure. Good Change or bad? I'll leave that up to ya ll to continue to discuss. []

Blessings,
dave

"It doesn't mean that much to me.. to mean that much to you." Neil Young

[Jon]

My point is, if you approve of legalizing dope, you are hypocritical to not approve of legalized gambling. Both can have detrimental effects on the people that engage in them and thus the community.

Dope use and gambling in Hawaii already exists will making them legal cause more?



-----------------------------------------------------------
I do not believe that America is better than everybody else...
America "IS" everybody else.
HBAT

[Dave M]

"My point is, if you approve of legalizing dope, you are hypocritical to not approve of legalized gambling. Both can have detrimental effects on the people that engage in them and thus the community.

Dope use and gambling in Hawaii already exists will making them legal cause more?"

Hmm.. well I haven't come down on either side of the issue. But even if I did want them to legalize pot and not allow casinos that wouldn't actually make me a hypocrite. Casinos and or that type of development would affect me on more of business level. Honestly, if I thought that they were about to legalize Casino gambling in Puna it would change my entire "invest in Hawaii" plan.

If they legalized Casinos in Hawaii I know some of my money would end up there, but, I don't know if my family would. Like I said "it would change the face of the islands Good or bad?"

Blessings,
dave

"It doesn't mean that much to me.. to mean that much to you." Neil Young

[Kelena]

This is very simple to me. People do not come to Hawaii to engage in corporate-run gambling. They come because Hawaii is unique. Corporate-run gambling will make Hawaii less unique, and therefore a less desireable place to visit and to live. Secondly, the societal costs of corporate-run gambling outweigh the very marginal financial benefits. Hawaii has it right at present.