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The sheer ugliness and high level of rude and disrespectful name calling all through this thread is dismaying to me as a long time Punaweb member. It really bothers me that people join this forum to just spew nastiness all over the place. For years Punaweb was a relatively troll free island in a sea of digital bile, but this and a few other threads show that the lower levels of human interactions so common in other parts of the "interwebs" has finally made it ashore here.
I realize that emotions are running high over the road issues in the Acres, but is that really any excuse for grown men and women talking to each other like this? Just because you are anonymously hiding behind a keyboard doesn't give you an excuse to behave in ways that would be unacceptable in person. Could everyone please just dial it down a little?
Carol
Carol
Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
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quote:
Originally posted by leilaniguy I was told these lots were planned for plantation workers housing.
There are a few subdivisions in Puna that started out as plantation housing but HA isn't one of them.
quote:
http://www.hawaiianacres.org/history.php
n 1958, two mainland businessmen from Denver, Colorado, Glen I. Payton and David F. O'Keefe organized a Hawaii Corporation called Tropic Estates. They purchased 12,191 acres of land between Kurtistown and Mountain View from Big Island politician and businessmen, Robert M. Yamada.
The land was divided into 4,008 lots and put on the market for $500.00 to $1,000.00 each, with terms as low as $150.00 down and $8.00 per month. The project was named Hawaiian Acres. The lots sold very well.
HA, HPP, Beaches, others, were originally undivided and being used for different plantation crops from the mid-1800's to the 1960's. Until the late 1800's, Puna was a major supplier of coffee for the US. Then there was sugar cane and pineapples after that crop moved elsewhere. HA and HPP were subdivided by mainland investors that decided south Puna should become like suburbs in California. Only thing, in California, subdivision developers are required to put in all the infrastructure first. In Hawaii, that wasn't a requirement back then and the transplant developers thought the developments would grow themselves. And grow themselves, they have done. Only problem is just the number of bodies have grown, not the infrastructure.
"This island Hawaii on this island Earth"
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
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subdivision developers are required to put in all the infrastructure first. In Hawaii, that wasn't a requirement back then
Supposedly the infrastructure was actually required -- but it was cheaper to cut the "right people" in on the deal.
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quote:
Originally posted by csgray
The sheer ugliness and high level of rude and disrespectful name calling all through this thread is dismaying to me as a long time Punaweb member. It really bothers me that people join this forum to just spew nastiness all over the place. For years Punaweb was a relatively troll free island in a sea of digital bile, but this and a few other threads show that the lower levels of human interactions so common in other parts of the "interwebs" has finally made it ashore here.
I realize that emotions are running high over the road issues in the Acres, but is that really any excuse for grown men and women talking to each other like this? Just because you are anonymously hiding behind a keyboard doesn't give you an excuse to behave in ways that would be unacceptable in person. Could everyone please just dial it down a little?
Carol
Thank you for saying that.
I wanted to but didn't want to get attacked....
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Put down at least one more thank you to csgray: the personal attacks are tiresome.
What's even more tiresome is the recurring need to remake Puna into another suburbia.
Case in point: the HA roads issues date back to the beginning, and they've managed to remain basically unchanged since then. Issues of responsibility and funding are almost irrelevant when measured against the time-honored tradition of unmaintained roads.
I still say this needs to be addressed as a real estate disclosure issue -- this won't "fix the roads", but maybe it will keep people from moving into places that lack the infrastructure they want (or need).
quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
I still say this needs to be addressed as a real estate disclosure issue -- this won't "fix the roads", but maybe it will keep people from moving into places that lack the infrastructure they want (or need).
kalakoa, interesting idea.
The purpose of disclosure is to inform the buyer of things that are known but not necessarily apparent upon physical inspection. There is specific property disclosure and there is a multi-page Big island disclosure that includes coqui frogs, tsunamis, hurricanes, lava, vog, catchment water, and so forth.
Where would you propose fitting this unmaintained road disclosure into the mix? Would it somehow be put into the all-island bag of disclosure, or would you be requiring individual HA (or other subdivision) property owners) to fill it in? Would there be a new line item?
It's been several years since I filled one out, but I remember there are items that require disclosure of any mandatory road fees and HOA dues, and things held in common with other landowners as shared responsibilities.
Do you have in mind a disclosure of the "philosophy" of "this is how it is and don't buy it if you want to change it to suburbia"?
Note: In case my tone isn't clear, I am in no way being sarcastic. I'm thinking seriously about the proposal, how you envision it incorporated in black and white on the disclosure forms.
btw, I'll mention this because some may not know this, but a real estate agent or broker is specifically prohibited from helping the Seller fill out the disclosure. Disclosure is between the individual Seller and the Buyer, However, the multi-page BI disclosure that gets attached is an approved catchall for issues that are found on this island, and obviously that was developed with input from real estate professionals.
Being that Disclosure is a way of informing on what is not easily visible to the eye, I see no need to disclose the state of the roads, as due diligence should be enough. It sounds like what you want to disclose is that any expectations of change in that area are going to meet with resistance and will be disappointed. How would you put it?
I am just not sure how that would possibly work as part of a real estate contract.
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Unmaintained infrastructure disclosure would follow the plat. Prospective buyer required to sign indicating they "read and understand" the disclosure.
Basically, same way CC&R or "mandatory road fees" are a required disclosure, but in reverse. Maybe a blanket disclosure for any lot on a "privately owned" road that has no mandatory fees.
The lack of pavement is readily apparent to anyone who bothers to perform due diligence -- however, the implications are less clear, and easily missed.
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Pete ,.......yes you may.
After you have abused me in front of a jury of my piers I will beg for sympathy and forgiveness. I will try to explain that my statement was not meant to be as personal as it was taken.
In fact if I were the one to listen and repeat gossip I would hope you would remind me that it made me look and sound like a fool.
quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
Unmaintained infrastructure disclosure would follow the plat. Prospective buyer required to sign indicating they "read and understand" the disclosure.
Basically, same way CC&R or "mandatory road fees" are a required disclosure, but in reverse. Maybe a blanket disclosure for any lot on a "privately owned" road that has no mandatory fees.
The lack of pavement is readily apparent to anyone who bothers to perform due diligence -- however, the implications are less clear, and easily missed.
Thanks, kalakoa. I like the idea of the blanket disclosure about private road maintenance where there is no mandatory channel for maintenance.
Very true about the implications being easily missed. Although I think it is part of due diligence to pursue any questions raised by what one sees that does not appear ideal (to the person who is buying).
As in, say someone loves the property but hates the road and doesn't want to live with that long term -- part of due diligence would be to find out the history of maintenance, asking the agent for help. I remember my agent pointing me to subdivision organizations as a place to look for a better understanding of life in that subdivision.
It is important to get a buyer's agent who is willing to point out the potential downside of a property, a candid agent who isn't completely focused on that commission.
All in all though, nothing can force people to be smart or to comprehend what they don't want to look at, especially people who are pursuing a fantasy or dream. I don't think it helps that so many people offering advice tell would be buyers to just think positively and it will become what they want it to be.
No, it won't. It is already what a bunch of other people are used to, and have built, or left unbuilt, and you the buyer have some control over what you do within the parcel lines, but the rest -- is community, which may resist change.
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Carol....as to your 5/30 post, I am seriously hopeing that you do not feel this is a personal attack, and will apologize to begin with just incase. Although, I feel that my opinion is as valid as yours.
I noticed that you are involved in another thread re: issues HPP resident and board members are having. I was just wondering what your interest in these matters are.
I don't quite understand your superior attitude. No one has forced to read these posts and,....personally, I found your comments just as uncivilized (and I would tell you the same thing without a keyboard).
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