Hawaiian DNA in soil atop Mauna Kea?

[kalakoa]

Pahoa Pk is not considered sacred to Hawaiians or designated as a historic preservation zone

Correct. Haoles only budgeted $1M/acre, which is below the limit for "sacred surcharge".

[Guest]

Unfortunately, The office of Mauna Kea management hired folks like Wally Ishibashi. Mr Ishibashi would take down or kick over Hawaiian rocks or what could have been important Hawaiian history. Wally claims he was following office protocol or rules that is written somewhere, no one else has been able to find this protocol written anywhere yet. Wally Ishibashi would have been the man to be on site if bulldozing or any moving of rocks or earth were taking place atop Mauna Kea. This Mr Ishibashi admits to kicking over important Hawaiian rocks or shrines when he himself did not approve of them, no documentation needed that way. This video of Mr Ishibashi will show some here what kind of person he is and respect he had towards his own people. jmo

http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2016/1...ess-stand/

This video of Wally Ishibashi shows some of his ways up on our Peaceful Mauna a Wakea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_5jJ7x5s5w

[Carey]

OP, I MEANT circular logic...Why do you feel you must change my meaning???

[kalakoa]

no one else has been able to find this protocol written anywhere

Oh, look, it's that "standard operating procedure" again.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

If Hawaiian DNA were discovered to predate the earliest assumed date anywhere up on Mauna a Wakea, it would be relevant information.

How would an earlier date of Native Hawaiian presence on Mauna Kea change anything? We already agree there was an Hawaiian presence on Mauna Kea. Please explain what would be different if the earliest date of visitation were found to be:

1700 AD
1500 AD
1000 AD

And again, DNA will only show someone was there, alive or dead, not that a burial ground existed. Which I thought was your point?

On the fifth day - the scientists who studied the rivers - were forbidden to speak - or to study the rivers. -Jane Hirshfield's poem on creation

[kalakoa]

DNA will only show someone was there

If that DNA is "non-Hawaiian", do those non-Hawaiians also have claim to the mountaintop?

[ohiagrrl]

Gypsy, once again valuable info.

Thanks for the stats HOT, but evidence on the mountain top is what the point of the discussion is. Several people checking in were claiming no evidence exists up Mauna Kea at all, others saying that it ony dates back 10 years, others 200 years. Just saying that added scientific decoding of less visible evidence would settle the matter once and for all.

Eric, I personally never said I was opposed to proper excavation with a kupuna present, I just personally would not take part. I believe a full time native council needs to oversee events daily from now into perpetuity in any endeavor up on Mauna Kea. An native astronomer would have been ideal. I hear and have heard your arguments and respect that you believe them and that you believe your personal stake on this mountain is as important if not more, than that of the Hawaiian peoples quest for self determination but even a whiff of impropriety got TMT into the jam it is in, largely due to missteps by its partners. I am sorry that so many fine people have landed in a complete dillemna over this incident but the on going issues surrounding the Astronomy Park were bound to play out at someones expense beyond the Hawaiians, you guys just got lucky. We cant see how this event may benefit all parties yet, have faith. My opinions have no bearing on any outcome because the date for evidence submissions is closed until potential appeals but I do appreciate your clarity, but for the record if everyone believed that the new management was impecable, it would not be in court.

Kkoa for the sake of argument, if they come up with a way to clone a Menehune from DNA samples found up there, along with historical data it's possible that Menehune might be able to prove legal rights to continue to practice banditry from on high but it could get ugly

Carey, I really don't understand what your goals are for this conversation but would like to, so please feel free to try again, and chin up

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Several people checking in were claiming no evidence exists up Mauna Kea at all, others saying that it ony dates back 10 years, others 200 years. Just saying that added scientific decoding of less visible evidence would settle the matter once and for all.

Would you be specific as to what kind of evidence and dates you are discussing, otherwise this discussion gets utterly confusing:

Evidence of Hawaiian visitation
Evidence of ancient Hawaiian ahus
Evidence of Hawaiian burial grounds
Evidence of modern ahu placed by Kealoha Pisciotta
etc


added scientific decoding of less visible evidence would settle the matter once and for all.

How? It will only determine someone was there, not what they did while they were there. Or when. Unless it is locked in a layer of sediment which can be dated.

On the fifth day - the scientists who studied the rivers - were forbidden to speak - or to study the rivers. -Jane Hirshfield's poem on creation

[ohiagrrl]

All of the above please. I would hazard a guess that under a few of those pre existing telescopes (due to be dismantled after 2033) may harbor some good interior material from levelled cinder cones. They should perfect a DNA sequencing/ dating test by then.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

I would hazard a guess

On that we can agree


that under... pre existing telescopes (due to be dismantled after 2033) may harbor some good interior material from levelled cinder cones.

And that would prove?


They should perfect a DNA sequencing/ dating test by then.

If the material from a cinder cone was moved, and placed under an existing telescope pad there will be NO CLEARLY DEFINED SEDIMENT LAYER, and therefore dating will be impossible. Have you read the original links to the articles you posted about this DNA technique? Please go back and read it, especially the parts about dating.

On the fifth day - the scientists who studied the rivers - were forbidden to speak - or to study the rivers. -Jane Hirshfield's poem on creation