H-130 Beautification Planning???

[Rob Tucker]

Jon, it seems to me that you have not read the Puna Community Development Plan. Is this true?

And explain please. Why would closing Hy. 130 to commercial development doom Puna to a third world existence or a enclave of millionaires? I don't see the connection.

To assume that our highways must be lined with stores is, in my opinion, the old cheap gas model of planning. Where everyone is driving around in gas guzzlers going to and fro. Isn't that what you have in Texas?

In a Village Center model the goods and services are clustered which preserves the sense of rural life and makes public transportation practical. Village Centers are the chosen design model for the district.

[Jon]

Nope... I have not.
here are a few of my thoughts....
Retail needs access... trying to push it in to special pockets does not work for a middle to lower class community.

Its a highway... not a scenic by way.

Public transportation has never worked in a rural setting before, why will it work this time?

The Village Center sounds good, and I am sure I would use some of the services there, but lets get real, Wal-Mart will not move in there, so people will have to drive to Hilo anyway.

The Jobs are in Hilo, people will drive to where the Jobs are. Gas is not going anywhere, we will be using cars for another 100 years or so. Oil is still be easiest cheapest form of energy that we know of. Wishing it away wont work.

Best bet is to plan for the future and include the present.
From what I have read here, you want Puna to be the bedroom for Hilo, if so, you better put in a 8 lane highway.


I don't have anything in Texas and I thought we were suppose to keep the topic on Puna? []
If you want to talk about Texas, you might want to look at how well its doing compared to the Hawaii or the rest of the US.




Transplanted Texan
"I am here to chew bubble gum and kick some *** ... and I'm all out of bubble gum"

[Rob Tucker]

I thank you for your responses. I don't think they explain your opinion that without a commercial highway Puna will be a 3rd world environment filled with millionaires..... seems like an oxymoron to me. Or how it would become one or the other. Still don't get it.

The situation you describe with jobs and shopping is correct... if you want to describe what is here now. Planning requires looking ahead. The PCDP is intended to describe what Puna can and will become.

The community has been asked to speak to the issues and that has taken place. The PCDP is not intended to be a blueprint of the existing Puna but a road map to a future Puna. In that I think it prudent to assume that things can and will change. Things like dependence on gasoline to operate private vehicles. The auto industry seems to be heading in another direction. Environmental concerns are turning away from burning stuff constantly as a bad, expensive habit. Like smoking.

Public transportation in a rural environment can work sufficiently if the destinations are clustered (Village Centers) rather than linear(sprawl). And Puna as a rural district can be preserved precisely by keeping our pathways rural. That is the part that most of us see and where we get our sense of place. If you are driving past farm land and Ohia forests (like we do now) you will know that. If you are driving past Toyota dealerships and fast food joints then that is what you will feel and experience.

What makes me optimistic is that Puna is not yet commercialized and channelized and paved. There is still a chance, for this district, to preserve some of what makes Hawaii unique.

But it is a battle. The battle is now between government institutions like HDOT and the community. The determination of the community plan has been made and it is, if you care to read it, rather along the lines of what James and I have described.

[Jon]

What you really want is things to stay the same... there are areas now that are 10,20 or 30 years behind the mainland...(3rd world). you drive through Pahao and see building that are falling down. I know a few years ago it was worse and it seems to be getting better. Stopping things where they are will not help.

Jobs go where jobs go, now one can not plan where they will be next, also, what if large manufacturing plant were to move in, they would not be allowed into your "Village Centers" but they would need to be on the highway with easy access. Where do they go. Hilo? back to that 8 lane highway.
Say with all this agriculture we supposedly have around here, a packing plant wants to open up... where does it go? somewhere off down a dirt road? Or Hilo... again... 8 lanes.

Public transportation rarely works anywhere in a free country. It will have to be heavily subsidized by tax payers and in most cases will be cheaper to buy each rider a car and pay for their gas.

Again, if you want things like they are, you better buy up every foot of land there is here, because people will not stop moving here and they love the life here, but are not going to give up civilization altogether.

you may see the battle between you and the government, but come November, I am the government and the battle is with all of us.

From what I can tell there are 20k+ people in Puna... the community plan got input from less then 1% of that. As you try to implement parts of it, the numbers of people with input will go up and they might not be what you expect.

Please do not think that my posts are meant to be antagonistic, I just see the world differently they some of you. It is not that I do not understand what you want done and in some ways it sounds grand, but I do not believe it will work, and if you get all that you want, I will not be able to afford to live here along with about 25% of the people here now.

I also believe people like you and James should push for what you believe will work and be better, but don't be upset when there are others pushing back.

By the way... looks like I have a trip to Costco coming up, cheaper to drive there and pay for the Gas then to get major supplies in Pahoa or Hilo.


Transplanted Texan
"I am here to chew bubble gum and kick some *** ... and I'm all out of bubble gum"

[Rob Tucker]

I am not trying to be antagonistic either. In the process I have been a part of everyone was welcome to participate and the task we were handed was to base all proposals on the input gained from 130 small group meetings held throughout Puna. If you were not part of that input I can't resolve it for you except to say that the process is ongoing.

Also. If the future growth and development is of mild interest then perhaps you could take the time available and read the PCDP. That will be part of what we are doing as we approach the amendment process.

The old saw that most people were not involved in the PCDP is quite true. People who aren't involved aren't involved.

So Jon, What is it in November that leads to: "I am the government and the battle is with all of us."

Kind of cryptic.

As a note: 1% participation is a big improvement. In the past the decisions were generally made by 4 or 5 people you don't know and who don't live here. If you have a way to improve participation please share it.

[oink]

Many years ago (about twelve yrs) here in my area of S. Fl., a regional mall came in. It was the standard configuration of stores surrounding the central, air conditioned halls, with the whole thing surrounded by vast expanses of parking. The whole thing was situated a couple of blocks off the highway(US1) in what was native forest.(palmetto, slash pine, scrub oak etc.) They left the two blocks of the forest between the highway and the start of the parking so that when driving by on US 1 it still looked like forest but concealed the massive mall. I remember thinking what a wonderful idea it was and that it showed such refreshing progressive (in a good way) foresight. It made me proud of our county leaders who obviously had a hand in encouraging development in such a manner.
Of course about a year later they started mowing down all of the trees and building box stores and restaurants on the previously "preserved" blocks. It wasn't the foresight I thought it was. The mall still remains hidden from US 1 to this day, except now, it is hidden by Taco Bell, McDonalds, Chilis, Rooms to Go, etc.

My point is that some development along the main highway could be done and still look nice if done as I originally thought the mall developers had done.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[DickWilson]

Oink; I think you hit the nail on the head with your posts. I've also seen some of the off highway malls with a greenbelt. But like you said, that greenbelt becomes prime building property and pretty soon, here come the variance and zoning changes, bought and paid for politicians only to ready to climb in bed with the developers and goodbye greenbelt.[]

dick wilson

[Rob Tucker]

So Oink and Dick, The point is.......?

?? There's no point in trying because the developers always get their way?

[DickWilson]

No I'm not saying not to try. The devil is in the details, Making sure that the village center is zoned to protect the surrounding greenbelt area and survives the pressure to build and re-zone. That requires public officials who can't be bought and who wholeheartedly support the village center concept. No easy task, as not Kenoi's edge in the polls. He's a perfect example of what can so easily happen if the "Good Ole boy " concept takes over.

dick wilson

[Rob Tucker]

I understand.... that's why I am working on the Pilago campaign and invite you to too.

Aloha, thanks for a simple and clear answer.

I will add this:

Gradually the this that is Hawaii is being lost. Just as it has been lost in SoCal and a long list of other once renown locales.

Oahu has largely lost it and the North Shore battles developers to "Keep It Country".

Maui has largely lost it and refugees from Maui move to Puna and Kau hoping to enjoy what is left of Hawaii.

Kona has made it's marriage with development and refugees from Konaside move to Puna for the same reasons.

Puna has, for the first time, succeeded in having a Community Development Plan make it into law. Some of us feel that that is worth defending.

Those really and truly wanting a Costco close at hand and value that above all else know where to buy their slice of America.