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every property owner is told to do their own do diligence and yes agents must disclose everything that They know about the property. soo its always buyer beware.
many people are moving into the area , ya just cant stop progress.
but the point of this topic is the failure of an organization to fill their fiduciary responsibilities. people have reasonable expectations that the road will be maintained to be drivable ,passable. along with accountability of where the funding is going.
HARC took upon themselves the responsibility to be the organization to be responsible for the task of maintaining the roads. they solicit for funding, sending out bills several times a year asking for money. they are responsible for their actions and must be held accountable for the collected money. contrary to what they think as board members "they don't own it" its not their money and they don't own it. they are caretakers.
wither you want a repaired road or not , the fact is that an organization exists , in Hawaiian acres , representing itself as a "road maintenance corporation" non-profit collecting money from the owners of property in the subdivision , with the sole purpose to repair, and maintain the roads . this organization HARC , must by its charter and bylaws fulfill the responsibility to the subdivision lot owners , and be accountable for their actions as well as for the funds they have collected.
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loves the property but hates the road and doesn't want to live with that long term
History shows that dues and associations aren't necessarily a solution -- nor do most people really perform enough due diligence, especially when the property "looks right". Favorite example: high-density "agricultural" subdivisions are easily mistaken for "residential".
To avoid possible issues with unrecognized non-private roads, disclaimer should be acknowledged for all properties which do not have frontage on a government-maintained road, and include a simple explanation of all the possible failure modes:
- private road, no maintenance or dues;
- private road, mandatory dues for maintenance -- but association may become unaccountable;
- "road in limbo";
- public road for which maintenance is ignored;
- public road, but lacking government accountability.
There should be a separate disclaimer about "What does Ag zoning mean".
Now ... the bigger issue with this approach is that government is currently able to stick their fingers in their ears and say "naa naa naa" while ignoring the problems, so any increased visibility could cause embarrasment, and that simply will not do.
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HARC took upon themselves the responsibility to be the organization to be responsible for the task of maintaining the roads
As far as I can tell, HARC has no legal mandate for this "responsibility", and as such, any misappropriation of voluntarily donated funds is merely unfortunate.
Unlike, say, County's handling of the fuel tax revenue.
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agents must disclose everything that They know about the property
Fail: assumes an agent is involved. Disclosures need to be mandatory for every transaction. Period.
many people are moving into the area , ya just cant stop progress
Progress is shaped by the participants. "Paving the road by my buddy's house" is one possible outcome; lack of cable/internet is another. (Some of the roads in HA still have no grid power -- progress?)
people have reasonable expectations that the road will be maintained to be drivable
I have learned that such expecations are unrealistic, no matter how "reasonable".
HARC ... are responsible for their actions and must be held accountable
I am not aware of any legal mandate which grants this responsibility to HARC; any misappropriation of voluntarily-donated funds is effectively a "misunderstanding" between consenting parties.
[i]HARC , must by its charter and bylaws fulfill the responsibility
It would seem that HARC is free to interpret its charter however it sees fit; this is apparently how they prioritize what little work they are alleged to have performed.
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2Bad4U,
I have no issue with any opinions voiced here, everyone is entitled to their opinion, I also did not name any names, or call specific people out for their way of communicating here, so it says something that you assumed I was talking about you, unless you are defending insults and name calling out of principle for some reason.
It is the delivery, not the content, throughout this thread from more than one individual that I object to. Punaweb has, for the most part, been a rare island of internet civility, as a long term member of the forum I have an issue with people joining the forum and right out of the gate bringing the discourse into the realm of incivility. There are lots of places on the internet where people insult each other as a matter of course, but Punaweb is usually not one of those places. I have an issue with rudeness in any thread, because the rudeness tends to spread to other threads, and encourages troll like behavior throughout the forum, and the next thing you know Punaweb would be just like any other troll filled internet forum where people routinely insult each other and call each other names.
The "matter" I have an interest in here is the virtual community of Punaweb, because what I value it for is the respectful way people treat each other, I don't think I am the only one who prefers it when people don't verbally abuse one another just because they can easily do so from the safety of their keyboard, and I am not sure how politely asking people to "dial it down a bit" can be defined as "uncivilized." I didn't demand that Rob ban anyone, or that the thread be locked down, which people have done in the past, I just asked people to play nice.
Carol
edited to clarify a badly written sentence
Carol
Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
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quote:
Originally posted by 2bad4u
Carol...thank you for the response,I really appreciate it. I would like to begin by assuring you that I by no means, speculated you were referring to me. I am not that insecure. Please no assumptions k. I was just currious as to your attempt at involving yourself in a topic that caused you such distress. It is unfortunate but I think you may be unable to cure the net of the bile you mentioned. Just didn't understand why you choose to start with this topic as everyone here is an adult and pretty thick skinned as far as I can tell. I would also like to mention that I personally know some of these individuals posting (in spite of them hiding behind their key boards) and trust me we are all pretty much what u see is what u get.
As far as your not requesting Rob to shut down the thread.......I suppose you could.
I would just hope that should he choose to do so, it would be his decision, not yours.
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Oh...Carol, by the way, this is not "just the facts".
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IN RESPONCE TO KALAKO..................
Exactly ! Unlike the county. This is truly a "private" sub. div. that the county has refused jurisdiction over. Therefor, Hawaiian Acres is pretty much a black hole when it comes to their contribution on any road other than eight.
As far as HARC having no mandate, I suggest you take a peek (on line) at the counter claim their attorney filed with the court. HARC most certainly dose feel they have a mandate. Although I am not quite sure from whom as even our courts have a system of checks and balances built in. Maybe you could let them know they do not ?
LOL
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I paid the HARC dues every year for many years, but I'm tired of seeing so little being done by them to maintain anything so I haven't paid anything this year yet. I'm also tired of paying for car repairs and being concerned about the extra time it would take any emergency vehicles to respond. Sometimes there is over two feet of water in our numbered road.
Instead I've spent over $1000 on 1-1/2 minus rock in the past 6 months on my numbered road and have spent lots of time with a shovel and rake working on a 1/2 mile of road myself. If everyone were to take responsibility for the road in front of their own property, which is only half of the 150' that is in front of each property, that would solve most of the issues with the numbered roads. Except for the fact that most of the lots are owned by people that don't live here.
To start with, the road needs to have a crown in the middle so water runs off instead of puddling in the middle. That's how potholes start and the more rain and cars driving into those potholes they just get bigger and bigger.
I only see HARC half arse scrape the middle of the letter roads one pass maybe twice a year. We need mandatory road fees, only 10% of the lot owners paying isn't fair when everyone uses the roads. We all own the roads too and need to take responsibilty for them.
I would gladly pay double the current rate of $60. $120 per year is only $10 per month to have the lettered roads better maintained. Isn't that about what it costs for a McDonalds meal? That would give a budget of almost a half a million dollars.
"If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there" - George Harrison
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I have no objection to mandatory road fees . I have issue with the road corp managing any funds. A "misunderstanding " for a misuse of funds .... and if there are no rules for HARC to follow for accountability , they are not the proper organization to be involved in any business in the subdivision , and should no longer be allowed to operate using the subdivision name. if what kalakoa states is true. also absentee lot owners should be made aware so they stop donating money into the organization.
however all of this is going to come more into the light of truth in court, either thru the present litigation or thru the being worked on receivership and its not just HARC its HACA also.
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