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From Tom: I was hoping this thread might just be specific to the Coco Palms case. Oh well, I guess I shouldn't have expected anything different.
I responded to this comment from Chas:
Wow. I simply pointed out a site that has a lot of original documentation. It was interesting...I thought others might find it interesting as well.
Chas got flak for simply offering an opinion and link. Are they poorly related to Coco Palms? Could be.
So? The link relates to native Hawaiian land and sovereignty issues. Do we now have criticism for excessive digression?
The real issue here is that 4-6 Punatalk critics quickly jump on any poster who too strongly sympathizes with native Hawaiian issues. That's a problem because it discourages discussion.
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I sympathize strongly with native Hawaiian issues, but not when they become illogical, illegal or racist.
For some people, that's not a problem.
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MarkD @ 11:10:43 3/11/2018-
The real issue is the corruption and incompetence of both DHHL and OHA.
The real issue is using "Hawaiian Identity" politics and racism expressed in "blood quanta" as an excuse/justification for these consistent failures.
And of course, to some extent, both "mainstream" national political parties cater to related attitudes.
Bill and Hillary Clinton were at the summit and observatories on Mauna Kea in January, being shown what
the telescopes are accomplishing, I didn't hear them say much about that, but they did mention about their
"apology" in Congress in 1993 for the 1893 overthrow of the kingdom, although that had actually been set up by the "Bayonet Constitution" of 1887. Thus "identity politics" so dear these days to the DNC and the local "old boy element" of the Hawaii Democratic Party. Mention has been made that certain extreme right elements of the
National Republican Party are supporting certain of the local Hawaiian Sovereigntists.
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MarkD wrote:
"Chas got flak for simply offering an opinion and link. Are they poorly related to Coco Palms? Could be.
So? The link relates to native Hawaiian land and sovereignty issues. Do we now have criticism for excessive digression?
The real issue here is that 4-6 Punatalk critics quickly jump on any poster who too strongly sympathizes with native Hawaiian issues. That's a problemi because it discourages discussion."
I asked Chas what his post had to do with the Coco Palms issue. My question was specific. If you or Chas want to develop things further, I suggest you start a new thread. It's not hard to do. If both of you want to make it personal, as you both seem to like doing, I'm not interested.
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkD
The real issue here is that 4-6 Punatalk critics quickly jump on any poster who too strongly sympathizes with native Hawaiian issues. That's a problem because it discourages discussion.
Considering that OHA & DHHL are about to be dissolved, you'd think the Native Hawaiian contingent, such as it is, would have bigger fish to fry than hassling a local employer...
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This is how this thread started: "There's the TMT and now there's this on Kauai." (and then a link of Coco Palms protest.)
This seems to invite broad discussion on native Hawaiian issues. But what do I know?
(An errant poster linked a Hawaiian sovereignty site; it was criticized as a distraction.)
I don't expect we'll see many more posts on Punatalk sympathizing with native Hawaiian issues. (Maybe an unaware Newbie.)
One would have to be a glutton for punishment.
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Good. That issue has been beaten to death on this forum. Feel free to use the search feature if you are a newbie and want to bring yourself up to speed. We are also no longer actively discussing chemtrails for much the same reason - been there, done that.
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posts on Punatalk sympathizing with native Hawaiian issues.
...
That issue has been beaten to death on this forum.
...
I was hoping this thread might just be specific to the Coco Palms case.
If you'd like to include the discussion of Native Hawaiian issues, why not focus on those which pertain to the Coco Palms case? There are plenty of them. For instance:
1) Has anyone seen or read the document(s) that support the land rights claim of the "Activists*?" Is there any followup or superseding documentation? (See my earlier example about a marriage certificate nullified by a divorce)
2) Have the "Activists*" provided a genealogy chart to detail their relationship with King Kaumualii, the last ruler of Kauai? If they are related, are they among 100 descendants, 1000, 10,000? Do they have a plan that will include the input of other descendants, at a meeting, or hold a vote to see how the entire lineage would like to proceed?
I've heard the "Activists*" discuss land deeds and ancestral claims but I don't think I've seen proof of either, or plans which include all of King Kaumualii's descendants. If neither deed nor proof of ancestry is available (or accurate), there would seem to be little else to discuss, other than how long their jail term might be.
* As the occupiers/trespassers are identified in news accounts
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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Of course there would be a thread like this on PUNAWEB!
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Chemtrails, that's funny, Kapholo Joe. I've heard they affect people much more severely above 13,000 ft.
Maybe some people get delusions and mental disruptions up high on Mauna Kea.
Maybe the chemtrails have some link to all the vitriol and agitation on the TMT debate. (saying this with the idea that both parties to the debate go to the mountain top)
