Posts: 5,640
Threads: 101
Joined: Dec 2008
One of the many great things about a roundabout is that they're so simple. You give way to traffic in the roundabout. That's it. With intersections as we have now on H130, nobody seems to know who has the right-of-way, as evidenced by all the glass on the road.
What happens now if you miss a turn? You have to do a dangerous U-turn on the highway, or take a turn, and another turn, and another turn. On a system of roundabouts you simply continue to the next one and do a 180.
Posts: 1,779
Threads: 73
Joined: Aug 2006
Here are links re roundabouts. These are not real new, so some may not work and there are undoubtedly other new ones I have omitted.
+++
“Roundabout Primer” at www.co.somerset.nj.us/bb%20rotary/roundabout_primer.htm
From www.drivers.com/article/334:
Visitors to Britain since the 1950s nearly always mention roundabouts as the most noticeable feature of that country's highways system. If they're drivers, their reaction is usually one of initial confusion, until they realize who has the right of way, followed by admiration as to how well the system actually works.
From www.roundaboutsusa.com :
Research has shown that roundabouts can reduce vehicle stops and delays, reduce traffic speeds, and increase safety compared with other intersection designs. They are also used to provide a gateway or aesthetic feature. As a result, roundabouts are once again being promoted by traffic engineers and planners. They are increasingly common throughout the world. To maximize safety and establish consistency it is very important that all roundabouts be designed (and existing ones redesigned) to reflect Modern Roundabout principles.
From www.charmeck.org/Departments/Transportation/About+Us/Roundabouts.htm
Roundabout Facts:
Roundabouts have no traffic signals to fail or maintain;
Drivers cannot "run the roundabout" like they can "run a red light!"
Roundabouts reduce the chance and severity of accidents
Roundabouts are pedestrian friendly and enhance the quality of life in surrounding neighborhoods
They provide opportunity for beautification - landscaping in the center island will complement the surrounding area
www.alaskaroundabouts.com/index.html
www.tfhrc.gov/pubrds/fall95/p95a41.htm
www4.nationalacademies.org/trb/onlinepubs.nsf/web/NCHRPSynthWeb)
www.tfhrc.gov/safety/00068.htm
www.dot.state.ny.us/roundabouts/howto.html
www.engr.orst.edu/~taekrtha/round.html
www.abnaengineering.com/abna
www.ksu.edu/roundabouts/
www.tfhrc.gov/safety/00068.htm
www.akcelik.com.au/SIDRA/roundabouts.htm
www.ksu.edu/roundabouts
www.roundabouts.net/roundabouts.html
www.azdot.gov/CCPartnerships/Roundabouts/PDF/Traffic_Speed.pdf
www.dot.state.az.us/CCPartnerships/Roundabouts/faq.asp
www.ite.org/traffic/documents/tcir0019.pdf
www.ci.davis.ca.us/pw/traffic/roundabouts.cfm
depts.washington.edu/hiprc/practices/topic/pedestrians/environment.html
www.citebc.ca/No95_Roundabout.html
www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3734/is_200209/ai_n9139900
www.walkinginfo.org/de/curb1.cfm?codename=16c&CM_maingroup=Intersection%20Design
www.sdearthtimes.com/et0501/et0501s12.html
www.apwa.net/Publications/Reporter/ReporterOnline/index.asp?DISPLAY=ISSUE&ISSUE_DATE=072000&ARTICLE_NUMBER=130
www.insurancejournal.com/magazines/southcentral/2000/08/14/features/22640.htm
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
Posts: 8,437
Threads: 1,031
Joined: May 2003
Interesting stuff. Thanks James. The last link shown had this tidbit:
"Researchers at Ryerson Polytechnic University, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and the University of Maine studied crashes and injuries at 24 intersections before and after construction of roundabouts. The study found a 39 percent overall decrease in crashes and a 76 percent decrease in injury-producing crashes. Collisions causing fatal or incapacitating injuries fell as much as 90 percent at some intersections.
According to the IIHS, these findings are consistent with those from other countries where roundabouts have been used extensively for decades. And the safety benefits do not hamper traffic flow. In fact, the study found that where roundabouts replace intersections with stop signs or traffic signals, delays in traffic can be reduced by as much as 75 percent."
Now maybe there are studies showing the opposite experience somewhere.....
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
Posts: 5,640
Threads: 101
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 773
Threads: 83
Joined: Dec 2005
quote:
Originally posted by james weatherford
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Tucker
... HDOT officials and contractor execs and consultants are a kind of revolving door.
Although I can not today put names to situations, I fear the above is at the center of the problem. It is a general observation and understanding that engineers move between employment at HDOT and private contractors on a regular basis. Are the sentiments of HDOT, soon-to-be-private-contractor, engineers concerned with public benefit or their own engineering careers?
There are some serious procurement issues, too. For example, when a signal light is purchased there goes along with that purchase a long-term maintenance contract. A County and State policy of roundabouts at every intersection where appropriate would pose a real financial threat to anyone who sells and maintains signal lights. When signal lights are the only option being considered, that immediately removes incentive for signal light sellers to keep down the cost of their product.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
Dr. Weatherford,
I’m not sure I concur with your assessment with regards to the signal maintenance contracts. Please correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t the DPW and the DOT maintain their own plant? Therefore, no contractor pay off for long term maintenance contracts.
"Many dreams come true and some have silver linings, I look for my dreams and a pocket full of gold" Led Zeppelin
If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it cost when it’s free...now here come the taxes.....
Posts: 773
Threads: 83
Joined: Dec 2005
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Tucker
I would not describe myself as a true roundabout advocate. I am very much open to them and want to know more. I have also been offended by HDOT officials who dismiss out of hand any ideas that compete with their own.
Regarding roundabouts I am attracted to a few things.
1) The safety data is both logical and reassuring. Left hand turns are seriously hazardous compared to right hand turns.
2) They save gas. Millions of automobile hours idling at stop lights and accelerating and decelerating are wasteful and costly.
3) They work when the power is out. At the most difficult moments - earthquake, hurricane, drunk driver hits power pole, other power outages - roundabouts function without electricity. They are full time low maintenance.
4) aesthetically they are more attractive and provide opportunities for landscaping and a natural look. Better than galvanized steel poles and overhead wires.
I am convinced that HDOT's reluctance to embrace roundabouts is because HDOT is more interested in serving it's contractors needs and wants than the public's. HDOT is an engine that consumes tax dollars. They and their contractors know fully and precisely how much profit can be gained from a signalized intersection. Roundabouts mean they can't be sure of profits because they haven't done them before.
In August of 2006 I got a public promise from HDOT officials that they would produce and deliver a cost/benefit analysis of roundabouts and signalized intersections. After waiting some months for the info I called them. They had no intention of producing a cost/benefit analysis. They said there was no point in it because even if roundabouts had excellent C/B results they (HDOT) had no intention of building any anyway. HDOT serves the contractors. That needs to change.
Rob,
As a general contractor I would much rather build roundabouts then an intersection with a signal because it will be a much more profitable project.
Both the land purchase and construction cost for a new roundabout vs. an improved intersection with a signal are much greater. If the DOT wanted to embrace its contractors it would let us build them.
Remember all material costs for signals are a pass through to a mainland supplier and don’t help the GC at all. Furthermore, it involves an electrical subcontract, testing, acceptance, shipping of material, damaged materials and delays.
Roundabouts mean they can't be sure of profits because they haven't done them before.
You’re kidding, right? What’s the difference if we construct in a straight line or around in a circle? All the components of roadway construction are the same, actually more costly. In order to keep traffic flowing while constructing it will call for an extensive traffic flow plan, yep you’ll pay for that to. Keep the signals and give us the civil construction. Our profit is in the construction not in material purchases and the complications of dealing with subcontractors.
"Many dreams come true and some have silver linings, I look for my dreams and a pocket full of gold" Led Zeppelin
If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it cost when it’s free...now here come the taxes.....
Posts: 1,779
Threads: 73
Joined: Aug 2006
DOT and DPW may do their own maintenance, but it is my understanding other wise. Would certainly be open to clearing that point up.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
Posts: 8,437
Threads: 1,031
Joined: May 2003
Scott, I would truly appreciate a more rational explanation for the extreme bias of HDOT against roundabouts.
I base my opinion on a twenty year experience with selling new materials and methods. Construction is a rather conservative field where the big players are never the leaders. They always wait to see how it works out for others before they accept change. The issue of profits and how to gage them has been a constant theme in objections from builders to new ways of doing things. I know.
I once met with a builder for a school project and tried to show them how they could save $500,000. on a school. What I was told was "We make 15% profit. If we save $500,000 on the project that means we lose $75,000."
If this attitude is absent from highway construction I am all ears for other explantions.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
Posts: 345
Threads: 22
Joined: Dec 2007
last summer we installed two roundabouts in north pole alaska. solved a major traffic issue. what a difference they made. i dont know if is needed here but they are sweet!
peace
Just a reminder to all, another H130 Meeting, Monday 5:45 Keaau Elementary School:
See item 3
b) Traffic Benefits ... d) order of magnitude cost estimates.
Item Agenda #7 Q & A open to Friends and Visitors
Damon Tucker's Weblog
|
