Trash burning

[missydog1]

>>> It would be a court that hears a valid complaint. The police and/or fire dept do not determine any laws.

Jeez, no reason to jump to taking something to court. I called the Fire Dept. the other night. THEY called what I was doing a complaint, under their system. Not a Complaint as in a lawsuit. They had two other complaints come in at the same time. They went out and took care of it. They can and do determine whether there should be a burn. I suppose if the person doesn't comply that they would issue a citation and then the neighbor could have a day in court, but in reality they just go take care of the problem and engage in communication and education.

If people do something habitually, they are willing to go out there and educate the people on how the code has changed and the days of burning everything are over. They do it in a nonconfrontational way. They understand that people have been doing it a long time and need to have it explained.

808, I feel like you are just going off on a general opinion about neighbor complaints, and finding the code, but you have never personally been in the situation and talked to the Fire Department. I have, and I'm trying to communicate a very valid way to work out a problem that can actually defuse neighbor tension and prevent some feud from starting up.

[Rob Tucker]

There is probably no better group or department of government that can match the Fire Department for simply getting things done in a practical manner. Their point of view is always very practical and with the best interests of everyone involved.

Codes are nice but rarely enforced in this county. If you don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill then talk to the neighbor and if that fails talk to the Fire Department.

[JWFITZ]

I think it's also important to realize that Hawaii is has an extensive agricultural heritage that involves burning, and hardly over, the practice is making a comeback. It is indeed the cutting edge of good ag practice. As we live in a world with increasing fertilizer costs and a more conscious application of pesticides burning is a time honored and now scientifically validated method of returning nutrients to the soil and controlling pests. We'll see more of it, rather than less.

The ancient technique of Hawaiian farming involving "slash and char" is called "waena" and involves selective clearing, mulching and discrete burning. It is, of course, illegal. It is, of course, also, effective, and 100 percent beneficial. I unabashedly use the technique myself, as do many. Sue us for doing the right thing. The alternative is heavy tillage, NPK, and Roundup.

And no, burning-especially if done knowledgeably as "slash and char" actually contributes less to global warming and climate change than does composting. Composting contributes large quantities of methane and nitrous oxide and sequesters no carbon. Slash and char consumes methane and the resultant carbon is sequestered. Not permanently, but on the order of centuries. As well, this carbon contributes greatly to the metabolic content of the soil and nitrous oxide production drops significantly.

Burning trash and tires in a neighborhood is another issue entirely of course.

I do sincerely appreciate Rob's genteel encouragement towards restraint in these issues.

There's an awfully disturbing and self-serving trend developing--or so it seems to me, to cry out "it's the law!" whenever it suits one's purposes and to sneak away when it doesn't. To be an advocate of freedom isn't advocating your freedom--it's advocating the freedom of others. Let's be reminded that it's "illegal" to drive a vehicle at more than 55.000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 MPH anywhere on the island. I'm pretty doubtful anyone here who's so big on "the law" would enjoy having a microchip in their car that automatically sent them a speeding ticket every time that limit was passed. Why not? It's the law? Likewise as freedom, you're not a worthy advocate for the law unless you're an advocate for all of it. . .don't be surprised if you reserve the right to pick and choose what parts of the law you think "valid" or "stupid" that others might do the same. Including those who do the "enforcing" of the law.

Remember, our legal system operates by discretionary enforcement. Most everything you can think of is outlawed and judgment is applied by enforcement officials. If it's a problem, they cite. If it's not, they don't. That's unconstitutional for sure, as enforcement officials don't have the constitutional authority to rule(in fact) on the judgment of a case, but that's what they do all the time, and that's the way it works. It's a practical issue. Operating in this manner takes an enormous burden off our court system. Imagine the chaos if everyone who drove at 55.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 mph got a ticket. . . Be very cautious in upsetting that applecart. Especially locally.

http://sensiblesimplicity.lefora.com/

[808blogger]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Obie
(8) Fires for the burning of leaves, grass,
weeds, wood which has not been painted with
lead paint or treated with insecticides or
pesticides, paper, and similar materials on
one's own premises, not exceeding four family
units and twenty-five pounds per day, per
unit, provided such burning is:

---

When i read this it says fires for buring of leaves, grass, wood etc. it does not mention RUBBISH. The rules for burning of RUBBISH are specified in separate "code". That is titled: Section 26-17.1. Bonfires and outdoor rubbish fires. that i posted deals SPECIFICALLY with rubbish.

My point is that your time constraints and "limits" do not apply to trash, they apply to the materials that are specified. also the section i quoted is from the HAWAII COUNTY CODE, not the DOH.

@JWFITZ I agree with your edit, peoples desire to control each other under the guise of "regulation" "code" "statute" "Acts" concerns me. Also the use as "authorities" to act as social mediators, when they are not trained in the "law" one bit.

[Wao nahele kane]

I'm certainly glad we're way out here away from close proximity neighbors... mega elbow room has advantages. As soon as the health ban is lifted I've a pile of dried Strawberry Guava trees that our chipper doesn't like. They are getting burned. Sure would be nice to chop it up bundle it and sell it as BBQ wood but who da hecks going to buy it; no one.
Anyone want some dried up Strawbery Guava trees? Great firewood!


E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.

[missydog1]

I would just like to encourage people to be aware that burning induces asthma attacks. There's a lot of asthma on the island. Our children have an above average frequency, probably due to vog. Asthma attacks can be fatal. Cancer, cardiovascular damage, reproductive effects, all associated with combustion products in the air. But asthmatics are like the canaries because they react on the spot. People have been burning waste for a long time, but people have been ignorant about a lot of things that affect health.

Mesquite burning is associated with asthma problems. It can be something that we think smells good. I like mesquite BBQ.
Wood stoves and wood smoke are really bad for our lungs. Run a search ...
I used to live in an area where most people burned wood for heat, including our household, but at the time I didn't have asthma and didn't pay attention.

Sorry to rant here, but activities that can send people to the hospital or cause death are not in the same class as playing the boombox too loud. Aside from the more dramatic responses, when asthma gets ramped up one ends up on prednisone (just had to take two courses), which destroys bones and makes us susceptible to infection. Some consideration for others would seem appropriate.

[JWFITZ]

I understand that Kathy--my sweetheart has very acute asthma. Prednisone has pretty much been a daily fact of life for her. Actually she's a lot better off here in Hawaii and the vog doesn't bother her a bit. I expect the major trigger for many is smoking. It seems to be the case for her(both parents smoked) and a lot of that goes on here to. The vog hasn't been a problem. Nor burning. We're capable of managing asthma and caring for the needs of a small farm in a responsible manner. While others might not, for sure, that doesn't mean it's impossible.

Actually, kane, a lot of people would indeed purchase guava firewood. I would if the price were right. I and others certainly have use for it.

I agree 808. It seems that people are unaware that starting tattle tale wars creates an atmosphere in which no one wins. Remember, the IRS has an anonymous tip line too where they'll go out and audit people on a tip. This sounds like a trend towards "Mutually Assured Destruction" and it serves no one. We all live in glass houses to some degree.

http://sensiblesimplicity.lefora.com/

[Wao nahele kane]

JWFITZ,
If you have a truck and a some time. I've a pile of it about 7'+ tall, 40' long and about 20'+ wide. You can take all of it or just some of it for free. We're trying to get our frontage yard landscaped and the pile needs to go.

E ho'a'o no i pau kuhihewa.

[JWFITZ]

Hi Kane,

I've a truck but no time. I know some folks in Ka'u who may be interested in taking the pile for a biochar project, and I'll put them in touch with you immediately if they're interested.

You'd be more than welcome to dump it in front of my place, by the way. . .LOL. No probs there, I'd be very happy to have it, just don't have the time to get it.

Otherwise, thanks very much! If nothing else, char that stuff down yourself! It will turn your soil into something spectacular. . .

http://sensiblesimplicity.lefora.com/

[dmbwest]

Second that Wnk,

Cut it up and put it out front with a sign ... It'll dissappear.

aloha,
pog