Posts: 8,442
Threads: 1,031
Joined: May 2003
Before this topic wanders off into acrimony I want to say that I have read through Arrow76's post and find nothing objectionable in it. It is his/her point of view and has as much validity as anyone else's. It is well written.
Every place on earth with have admirers and detractors - no big deal.
The Bay Area is lovely. I personally find it a fantastic and fun place to visit but not somewhere I want to live. I wish we had an Exploritorium. To each his own.
It is of good purpose for anyone considering the Big Island or Puna to have as many points of view available as possible.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
Posts: 311
Threads: 15
Joined: Jun 2010
Arrow... I think the folks here counseling and guiding newcomers have been very circumspect. Perhaps cheerful, but certainly not "overly cheery and idealistic about Puna." I have not read any posts that yell, "Come on over, its the greatest place in the world!" The guidance seems to lean toward advising folks to visit first and make up their own mind: sound advice, I'd say. As for your position re: "Aloha" and not claiming it in Oakland... so you are saying that grumpy people are okay, just as long as they don't claim to be filled with love and aloha. My take on "aloha" (being a recent transplant to Hawaii) is that it's just in the air here. Come and embrace it and let it envelop you and maybe you won't even notice when a few of the folks around you aren't also feeling the "aloha spirit." And maybe, just maybe, if you smile at them and throw them a "shaka" anyway, for no reason, you'll brighten their day and spread a little "aloha" yourself, rather than just measuring it and announcing to the rest of us that our "aloha" catchment is only half full.
Posts: 35
Threads: 8
Joined: Apr 2010
^^^ That's a very good response!
Wyline
Wyline
Posts: 3,035
Threads: 201
Joined: Aug 2006
I don't think someone can join a place based forum like Punaweb, post a slashing commentary on all the things you hate about the community virtually first thing, and not expect negative feedback from the people who actually do live there by choice. I have family who live all over the country, many in communities that I would never spend any time in if I wasn't visiting family, but I am sure not going to search out an online forum for their community, just so I can post how much I think their home sucks!
I reread Arrow's original post and some of the arguments are just silly. I grew up in a rural community with about the same population size and density as Puna, and we had no bus system, the most upscale restaurant was a drive in, and the nearest real shopping or movie theater was over an hour away. That is just the reality of living in a rural community. Maybe Puna's eateries aren't up to big city standards, but in most places a town the size of Pahoa would be lucky to have a Dairy Queen! And yes our mass transit system is a bit of a joke compared to virtually any city, but compared to most similar rural communities it is amazing it exists at all. Comparing Puna and the Bay Area is comparing apples and oranges and denigrating the orange for not being an apple.
Arrow had to seek out both Punaweb and that thread to find a place to post his well written, but very negative view of our home. I see no purpose to doing so except to piss off people who live here that Arrow has probably never met. What kind of person would even bother? Why was it so important to make sure that everyone who reads Punaweb knows what a hell hole he thinks his relatives chose to move to?
Maybe Arrow should just arrange to meet his family on the Kona side next visit, and then he won't have to come to a place he clearly can't stand.
Carol
Carol
Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
Posts: 1,839
Threads: 48
Joined: May 2007
Comparing Puna to the grey area is like comparing apples to elephants.
Posts: 92
Threads: 6
Joined: May 2009
Of course maybe Arrow was just browsing through Punaweb and found a thread that connected enough for him to contribute. He came on a little harsh but I imagine he feels pretty strongly about his opinion of Puna. He didn't seem to act like a troll in that he didn't keep posting repeatedly to fan the flames.
Punaweb is an excellent resource for those considering relocating to East Big Island. While many will love it there are those that won't and some people detailing why they don't love Puna will likely be helpful for someone considering the move.
And the fact that the down side of Puna is documented in the Punaweb archives doesn't mean that having up to date threads isn't helpful. If you are moving here you want to know what it is like now, not three or five years ago.
Its not pleasant hearing someone say that they don't like your home, I don't know how Punawebbers would feel about Kansas but I'll freely admit it has flaws without "showing them the door" for expressing their opinion.
Fact is most people on the mainland have their opinion of Hawaii pretty skewed by pop culture and marketing of tourism; i.e. the "aloha" myth. There are nice people here, but Midwest Nice is just as real and I've been greeted by friendly smiles recently in Massachusetts as well.
There isn't anything "in the air" that makes Hawaii any friendlier than other communities. Hopefully DaVinci doesn't give his shaka to the wrong person or he/she might learn what "get likkenz" is; another Hawaiian tradition.
Reading about the reality of living in Puna is great for a potential newcomer. Punaweb is an open web forum after all and doesn't belong to just the believers.
Posts: 311
Threads: 15
Joined: Jun 2010
quote:
Originally posted by KathyH
It's like on one hand people claim to be all about Aloha, and then someone comes along who doesn't feel the same way and he is shunned and insulted. From a third party perspective, that doesn't read like aloha.
I suspect that there are people who won't even post their honest feelings any more because they just get very predictable treatment from the gang -- the one that decides what are acceptable responses to this topic and what are not.
You singled me out Kathy, so I feel entitled to reply to your accusation of insulting Arrow. Where in my post is there an insult? I perhaps pointed out several differences between his and my opinions on this topic, but I do not think I was rude to the point of insult. If my post was too much fire and brimstone for poor Arrow to handle then he has thin skin indeed. I however, believed him to be made of sterner stuff, so I offered my opposing view. You see, it is my considered belief that a forum like this is the perfect place for people to disagree, (even colorfully, quippingly, trippingly on the tongue, with poetry, puns and song lyrics if the mood strikes) for we here are not bound by Robert's Rules of Order. Secondly, I don't think anyone here decided what were or were not "acceptable responses to this topic" and found Arrow's wanting. I believe we would all agree that his response was perfectly acceptable, for it was his opinion. No one banned him from future activity here, no one brought in the moderator. We simply exercised our own right to opinion and vociferously disagreed! But not en masse. We didn't convene a meeting at KeaauRich's house and decide what the "gang's" position would be on this issue. The thread just unfolded that way, organically. The point of a forum is to hash things out, to speak one's mind. But you understand this, clearly, as you have done just that. Brava! I however, would politely take exception to your characterization of my post as insulting. And as for being a member of some "gang," I would humbly point out that this offering will be my 6th post. I'm still a newbie here. Peace and Aloha, Kathy!
Posts: 1,163
Threads: 32
Joined: Aug 2009
Whoa! How'd I'd get dragged into this??? ("We didn't convene a meeting at KeaauRich's house and decide the gang's position") I love good discussions and different opinions - I just don't like it when people make snide remarks or hurl personal insults along with their pearls of wisdom. Having said that, if you're gonna convene a meeting at my house, please, please, please give me a couple of hours notice so that I can clean a bit... aloha 
Posts: 311
Threads: 15
Joined: Jun 2010
Kathy: I undertand and accept your explanation that the "insult" accusation was not meant for me. Thanks for clarifying that, for all those who perhaps read your entry but not my previous one. I don't like being accused of rudeness any more than I like insults hurled at me, so I'd also concede the point that insulting Arrow or anybody else on this forum is certainly not nice. You misunderstand me if you think I think that is fun. Song lyrics are fun, insults are not fun. That said, I think everybody needs to take a deep breath and relax a bit. First of all, I think this is a very cordial forum, compared to many I've seen--gaming and programming forums, for instance. So I consider us lucky to have such a pleasant bunch of members, Arrow included. Another quick point: "troll" is an idiom particular to internet forums, which indicates a person who is in a chat room where they don't really belong. Perhaps what was meant had more to do with Arrow living in Oakland and participating in a Puna chat, than actually accusing Arrow of living under a bridge or eating children. I'm not defending the comment however: in fact, I disagree. I think Arrow has every right to be here, and to comment to his heart's content. However, I understand the sentiment: Arrow really is no longer a Punatic, and although not quite a troll, IMHO, he is being a bit cheeky to point out our warts. Pointing out one's own warts is a prerogative... pointing out the warts of others, in this case, those of us who do in fact live here, is just mean. So no, I didn't like the tone or content of his posts, or for that matter, of several responses aimed at him, but I would defend his and their right to give voice to those comments, without regard to whether I (or you, or KeaauRich) liked them or not. And when I said to Arrow, "skip your next visit" I was responding to his previous post, which I thought was quite severe. Mine was a catty remark, intended to show the depth of my feeling regarding his original attack. It was my own exercise of the right mentioned above. It was not, however, intended to be taken literally. Finally, in closing, (whew, he's going to shut up at last!) I'd like to apologize to KeaauRich... sorry guy. Dragged you in unfairly! (KeaauRich is, for those who don't already know, one of the most gentle and thoughtful members of this forum!) Peace and Aloha.
KathyH - I resent being called "flawed." I am not flawed but a perfect being, perhaps the only one on the planet.
|
