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(I originally posted this on B.I.C. page, but thought it would be good to repost here for consideration. Sorry for the repost to anyone following this topic on both forums.)
It occurs to me, that in the perfect world, we would all be driving energy conservative vehicles and we would all be able to afford one of these shiny new things. But in the real world, real people can't all afford it. Yet we don't see laws coming down that say, "Too bad you don't want to spend the extra 10k, people. If you don't, we'll put you in jail and fine you. You're like kids not wanting to take your medicine and we're just looking out for you poor, ignorant people who don't know how to look out for yourselves".
Same principal, really. And even more so. The chances of getting killed in a car wreck far outweigh the chance of being saved by your saferoom. The pollution/sustainability factors are probably about equal. Are saferooms a good idea in general? I think so! I'd love to have one. Should they be mandatory? Definitely NOT. Are the new, more eco friendly cars a good idea? I think so! I'd love to have one. Should we all have to buy a certain kind of car or be fined for buying older vehicles? Definitely not.
Melissa Fletcher
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"Make yurts, not war" Bill Coperthwaite, 1973
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The code changes in California over the past fifteen years have basically eliminated any meaning of the term "affordable housing". But Hawaii is not California yet. Just the permitting processes in coastal Cal are enough to build a home here. Last home I built on the Cal Coast was over $100,000 before we got a shovel in the ground and the permitting process, without glitches, took eighteen months.
So be happy to live Hawaii.
I am not endorsing the call for safe rooms. However I will say that Castleblock (my company) produces safe houses economically. The whole house is a safe room and it isn't as expensive as you might think. Any regular room (wood frame) can cost in the range of $6k - $16k of building cost as you stated above. General homes are running about $135+/- PSF. A 10x12 room (120 SF) would be $16,200 at that range with contracted labor. Conventional. It is really more of a matter of material and design decisions than an extravagent expense.
Assume the best and ask questions.
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You'd be one of the most called upon people that builders would look to in most cases, I suspect. So it would be good for your business at least! But I know you don't endorse ridiculous mandates. Question then, to you Rob. How much would a safe room cost through your company, labor and material inclusive?
Melissa Fletcher
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I haven't seen the design standards for the code but I would guess that it would be +/- 5% of wood frame costs depending on who is doing the work.
Years ago I did an earthquake project where the home in Fillmore had been completely destroyed. Habitat for Humanity had a wood frame plan approved for the site. We converted the design to ICF (Insulated Concrete Form) and when the job was done the Habitat accountant said we came in 5% under budget. And that whole house was a safe house. It was volunteer labor so the cost issue there was mostly materials.
The single biggest thing about this safe room stuff and some other issues comes down to this in my mind.... engineers have found that they don't trust a nail one damn bit.
I am a master carpenter by background but I turned away from wood frame 20 years ago for the very reasons that are hitting the news now.
Irony is that the new codes might boost my business just as I am thinking of retiring.
Assume the best and ask questions.
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Just to clarify a thread developing here, a safe room is not necessarily made of concrete! Safe rooms can be constructed using just wood. As for a concrete house being entirely a safe room, this will only be true if all windows and doors are projectile proof and the roof/ceiling is fortified. A safe room is not an additional room that must be added to every house. It is merely a way of fortifying one room in a house design so that it can withstand high winds and projectiles even if the rest of the house is torn to shreds in 160 mph winds.
One more thing, the cost projections by "yurtgirl" seem to be based on the need for a yurt owner to build a completely separate room apart from the yurt to qualify as a safe room because yurts are intrinsically not safe for hurricanes. A safe room in a wood framed house would cost about $3000 more based on two projectile proof windows, one door, upgraded walls and ceiling and attachments.
I lied. One more thing, as for America becoming "socialist" because our building codes are becoming more stringent, get a life! Or at least read some history. Every developed nation had adopted stricter building codes over the past centuries to ensure the safety of its citizens. As more information has become available about deaths in hurricanes, the building codes have changed to ameliorate those concerns. This is not socialism.
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I posted this on BIC a little while ago....
"As I haven’t seen the engineering yet it occurs to me that a safe room might only require that a room be built with steel frame and screws. Not a big deal but a lot more durable.
As for windows: Practically every window manufacturer already produces windows that meet the code. Single pane is not stocked regularly any more and has become a special order item in a lot of cases and actually costs more than dual glaze because of that."
Assume the best and ask questions.
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Most yurts are built on post and pier foundations, just like most stick built kit homes. And most kit homes are not intrinsically safe for hurricanes, as we saw in Iniki and see in Florida and other, ACTUAL, Hurrican prone areas (which again, we are not PRONE). So, how do you make a safe room in a house that is on a post and pier foundation? And what's next for 'Public safety'? Having everyone live in a bomb shelter? Here's the language:
Safe – room amendment/partial: 1. The safe room shall be built with a complete structural system and a complete load path for vertical and lateral loads caused by gravity and wind.
2. The building that the safe room is built within shall be assumed to be destroyed by the storm and shall not be taken as offering any protective shielding to the safe room enclosure.
3. The ceiling structure and wall shall be capable of supporting a superimposed debris load of the full weight of any building floors and roof above, but not less than 125 psf
4. The safe room enclosure shall be capable of simultaneously resisting lateral and uplift wind pressures corresponding to a 160 mph 3 second peak gust, determined in accordance w/ ASCE Standard 7, Minimum Design Loads for Buildings and Other Structures, calculated using load and importance factors of 1.0. The site exposure factor shall be based on exposure C. The gust factor and the directionality factor shall be taken as 0.85. Topographic wind amplification caused by mountainous terrain shall be considered in accordance with the building code. Internal pressure shall be determined in accordance with ASCE – 7.
5. The safe room shall be anchored to a foundation system capable of resisting the above loading conditions.
422.7 Communications. The safe room shall be equipped with a phone line and telephone that does not rely on a separate electrical power outlet. Alternatively, a wireless telephone shall be permitted to rely on an Uninterruptible Power Supply battery device
422.8 Construction Documents. Construction documents for the Residential Safe Room shall be directly prepared by a Hawai’i licensed professional structural engineer.
422.10 Notification. The owner of the safe room shall notify the State Department of Defense and county civil defense agency of the property’s Tax Map Key or Global Positioning System coordinates.
Melissa Fletcher
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Impact resistant windows have stronger frames and laminated glass. They are typical in places like the Gulf Coast but are not commonly used here. They are significantly more expensive.
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A safe room can easily be built on a post and pier foundation provided it is anchored and supported properly. My point was that a yurt's walls and roof offer very minimal wind resistance, while a stick-built house can be pretty easily modified to meet the safe room structural requirements, depending of course on the initial design. One does not have to start from scratch as one would with a yurt structure. Thus, a safe room in a stick-built or concrete house will cost significantly less that one constructed to accompany a yurt.
I agree with most posters here that the communication requirement is ludicrous. Do you really think that with 160 mph gusts the phone lines will still be functioning anywhere besides the interior of the safe room? This seems ridiculous to me. What good is a landline when all the phone lines and poles are down?
One other question, are there really enough structural engineers to "directly prepare" all safe room construction documents?
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From a practical standpoint a detached concrete shed or root cellar is a better safe room because with the internal ones if the rest of the building collapses on it who is going to dig you out and When! And what if the rest of the building is on fire
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