Building code changes

[Rob Tucker]

That is a history I am familiar with. I saw it first hand after the Malibu Firestorm and after the Northridge Earthquake. The wailing lasted about a year after each event and then people tended to forget about it and complained about the pending elevation of code requirements.

Katrina I watched from afar and is only one of a nasty series of natural and man made disasters over the last decade. All indications are, whether we like it or agree with it or not, is that climate change is real and will affect us all. Even here in Hawaii. The base prediction is for more intense and more frequent storms and that is what has been happening. This last summer had a little publicized event... a mainland, inland hurricane through the midwest. Hurricanes have always been over water. An inland hurricane is something new.

At it's base FEMA is trying to gradually get the nation prepared for the future. The proposed new codes will take 20-30 years to establish a new base line of housing.

[YurtGirl]

I understand that mentality. I understand that this agency believes that they have to protect people using these codes because people don't know what's best for themselves. I get it. I just get a little sick every time I 'get it'.

There's no logic in acting on 'what ifs' when there hasn't been precedent of the supposed future calamity in our area. What if our water supply gets poisoned by acid rain? Oh wait. What if our air gets toxic? Oh, nope, that's here already too. There have been volcanic streams of molten lava that have eaten villages and people's homes. Any word on forbidding that? No. Earthquake precautions? Sure, we've got that already. But indestructible to fire, earthquakes, tidal waves, tornadoes, typhoons, sand storms and hurricanes? Why not just bring it all in already, that's what is inevitably going to occur if we don't get vocal and intelligent in what codes to allow and what codes not to allow.

What if a massive, unprecedented earthquake does hit the island? It seems a heck of a lot more likely than this massive beast of a mythic hurricane. Is the safe room designed to withstand an earthquake? Don't think so. Lava? Nope. Don't see that language is in there at all. It's for flying debris. Hurricane. So next year they can throw out more codes adding thousands more dollars to the cost of citizens that are already in debt to their eyeballs building their own homes, to ensure we're fully protected against mega-earthquakes. Next year, volcanoes. Next year, meteorites. I begin to see the allure of living in a cave!

I don't mean disrespect for anyone here, and I can be pretty vocal when I get riled up. This has me riled up. Obviously. I see the points you're making on the other side. I agree, safe rooms have plenty merit. But those points do not come close to warranting this mandatory measure.

By the way, this is a measure which would be enforceable by massive fines, property searches, jail time and, worst case scenario, losing your house because you couldn't pay the fines. Safe room. On record with the civil defense. With it's own dedicated phone line (no bathroom necessary. No water source necessary.) Seems alarmist? Why put it on the books if it isn't meant to be taken seriously? Do we just give the power over on paper and expect that they'll never use it?

[Rob Tucker]

The proposed codes will not apply to existing housing, they grandfather in. I agree that some of the language proposed is
kind of strange. The county seemed to indicate it was open to discussion... except the safe rooms.... the county response
on safe rooms was, as I understand it: "non-negotiable".

And we had a massive 7+ earthquake in the Red Road area 1975 I think it was.

[YurtGirl]

Why do you think the safe-rooms are non-negotiable? I didn't get that impression at all, quite the opposite actually... but would appreciate any info about that.

I know we've had big earth quakes, definitely. That's kind of my point. Why go for hurricane proofing houses when we haven't really seen any wide-spread, life threatening damage island wide? Why focus on hurricanes instead of issues that are here and have precedent of damage and life threats? I know that it's possible that we'll get hit by a category 5 hurricane, but how likely is it? And how likely are the other points of danger? So why are we focusing on hurricanes again? Because of Katrina? It's not sound logic.

Codes won't apply to grandfathered in residences, but to new houses or remodel projects that cost 50% or more of the assessed value of the house. If you don't have a permit or are suspected of not having everything on record, permitted, etc. then inspectors get to inspect your property with a police officer present, and site you and fine you, if you don't pay the fine, they can arrest you.

[Rob Tucker]

Structurally hurricanes and earthquakes are similar events. Lateral shear. In earthquake it comes from earth movement shaking the structure laterally (sideways) and usually lasts for a number of seconds or minutes. In a hurricane it comes from the wind shaking the structure laterally (sideways) and usually lasts for a several hours.

One of the primary functions of a safe room is to resist the lateral forces and the other primary function is to withstand the collapse of the roof and/or upper story(s) of a structure.

Lots and lots of data on how poorly wood frame buildings hold up in these circumstances. Which is why I abandoned wood frame construction 20 years ago.

Personally I have more faith in an owner build wood home than a contractor built wood home. Homeowners don't generally cut corners to save money and aren't too aware of just where they can do so without it being noticed.

[Obie]

I'm curious about how well a safe room will perform in a tsunami inundation zone?

Is it going to have some sort of snorkel for breathing air or would it be required to have a self contained air source??

In Katrina many of the survivors were rescued from their roofs.

[Rob Tucker]

I would guess that it would have to be elevated per the requirements of the tsunami inundation zone.

[TrevorKane]

I experienced Andrew first-hand, Miami had extreme damage to virtually 100% of its habitable structures in about a 20 mile wide swath - several neighborhoods experienced full roof loss on most homes. Official word was that nobody died except some guy who rode it out in a sailboat. Urban legends speak of mass graves of migrant farm workers, but I never got any direct or even second hand evidence of that. I really don't see how safe rooms would have improved anything in Miami during or after Andrew. The first big problem there were people on electric-pump wells, they threw a pretty good water riot before the National Guard showed up. The after-storm stress was pretty high, even when food and water were under control, modern Miami doesn't do well in August without air-conditioning. The major "thing" for me after Andrew was the concept that 911 didn't do anything. I've never used 911 in my life, but there's that feeling that it's there if you need it. Driving in traffic after the storm didn't feel too unusual, until somebody rear-ended me - not much sense waiting 6 hours for a cop to maybe come by, and no way to call them. And, yet again, I don't see how having a "standing room" does anybody any good in this situation - in my experience, there was enough "shelter" (maybe no glass in the windows, but at least a roof or tarp that kept the rain off) for most people to just double up with friends or whoever until things got back in shape, many people did leave the area for a while, some permanently. Of course Miami has lots of concrete structures, Puna might look a lot more flat after a heavy storm.

@Rob, thanks for the reply! The permitting process may be cheap enough, is it true that there is an impact fee?

For the central roof area, I'm trying to figure out how to put a layer of radiant barrier up below the metal with minimal labor and materials, while also not looking like a recycling project.

I'd love to build our home with insulating concrete forms instead of sticks, and the cost may not be that much higher if you're paying labor on either option, but my situation is that I can do a significant portion of the labor on a stick-built home, not so much on other forms of construction, and around here labor is well over 60% of the cost of construction, also true in Puna? Then there's the mental anguish (for me) of living in somebody else's sloppy execution of an otherwise good plan - if it's my sloppy execution, I know why, when it's theirs, it's just a(nother) compromise I made in my life to save time. For us, a big part of moving to Puna is about taking time for the things that matter, instead of trying to juggle career, cash flow, and 21 alloted PTO days per year. I know, I won't have any PTO while I build our home, but somehow that's very different.

[Rob Tucker]

Trevor, If you are interested on how to get he best house for the money call me and lets talk.

Rob, 965-1555

PS No impact fees as yet.

[TrevorKane]

Rob said: "Personally I have more faith in an owner build wood home than a contractor built wood home..."

My uncle built his home himself (wood frame 2nd floor over CBS first floor), and it went through the eye of Andrew. Lots of luck was probably involved (like: not getting hit by flying chunks of other houses), but his house was the only one on his street that did not lose its roof.