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In the old sugarcane days what is now Hwy.130 was a rutted rugged road and people didn't have many cars. My ninety year old neighbor has told me how they used to ride the train to Hilo and enjoyed it. I have been advocating for PMAR to have sufficient right of way to have rail as an option someday. Rail to and from Pahoa and Hilo has a history here and may well be very needed once these thousands of lots are full of people.
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MDD7000,
We are in agreement on this one, it is a flimsy excuse, which is why I wonder if they are setting up their firm opposition to PMAR running through their land as a bargaining chip for something else they want.
I know people who have seen the Shipman plans for that area, they are elaborate, extensive, and include large scale residential and tourist development. They also are a work in progress, subject to change as market conditions change. A limited access highway bisecting their large tract of land was NOT part of their design. One set of plans had a "harbor" somewhere on their side of Kaloli Point, but I have trouble imagining how that would work.
If you look at the way the county widened the south end of Railroad in Hilo and the boulevard they built where Puainako runs between Railroad and the highway, it seems to me that they are planning for the PMAR or some other roadway from Puna to dump into Hilo in that area.
Carol
Carol
Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
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Rob, how do yo advocate for something like this and with who. i always thought a new rail system would be entirely out of the question but would certainly welcome the possibility.
I really miss the cane industry. I never thought I would get nostalgic for being caught behind a cane truck on the highway, but I am. The cane fires at night were an indication of commerce and jobs.
Before anyone jumps on me, I know sugar cane is not native and well know about the chemicals used. But sugar always meant Hawaii to me and I do miss it.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Tucker
..I have been advocating for PMAR to have sufficient right of way to have rail as an option someday. Rail to and from Pahoa and Hilo has a history here and may well be very needed once these thousands of lots are full of people.
A number of cities have implemented (fairly recently) light rail that intermingles with the traffic. Dallas has done an excellent job with it. They are quiet, efficient and through the downtown area, run right next to the cars. The key is having proper park and ride locations as well as having the train run right by the larger employers and shopping areas.
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As part of the Puna Community Development Plan (PCDP) I submitted a proposal - Puna Parkway - for PMAR in 2006. It is still in discussion along with other ideas and proposals. These are all part of the Transportation Working Group papers which can be downloaded from this link:
http://www.hawaiicountycdp.info/puna-cdp...s.pdf/view
My proposal starts on page 69. It is just a proposal and my basis in writing it was two fold... 1) People had told me that there was NO WAY a road could go through HPP and 2) I was interesting in examining how alternative an alternative route could be.
As for how you or others might advocate for ideas the best way is to read up on the PCDP and start attending meetings of the PCDP Action Committee which meets monthly. It is overseen by the Planning Department.
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To keep the discussion on travel between Hilo and Puna, with something called "PMAR" as the immediate context...
Rail? A few years ago I was working (elsewhere) in public transit at a senior policy and economic analysis level, rather than just talking-story and speculating about these matters. A few very relevant points I learned about passenger rail:
First, passenger rail is not flexible in where it can pick up and put down passengers; and thus works best where it delivers passengers from city -- not town -- periphery to a city center. When this rail is built before and/or with the the city, that is fine because the 'line' and the 'terminus' are within walking distance of most city destinations. Note, this close proximity to most destinations is critical because requiring passengers to rely on transfers from trains to busses or taxis reduces train ridership -- minimum 15% for each transfer required to reach a given destination. When a rail is forced into an existing city center, it is very expensive and not very pretty (the elevated tracks planned for Honolulu being a case in point). Hilo would not easily nor inexpensively accommodate the construction of a modern railroad that would service major destinations (shopping, port, airport, downtown, university).
Next, the unit of economic analysis is COST PER PASSENGER MILE -- which is kept down if we lower the overhead and operating cost, and increase the number of passengers going long distances.
Straight line Nanawale to Hilo is about 20 miles and most of Puna's population is much closer and that relatively short distance increases the COST PER PASSENGER MILE. A modern passenger rail system needs to serve a population of at least 500,000 -- and much more population than 500,000 is much more cost efficient, as calculated in COST PER PASSENGER MILE. With "full build out", a theoretical concept having major flaws in the math (one being the high incidence of adjoining lots owned by a single owner and used as one property), the population of Puna makai would be around 100,000.
Next, there is an alternative that rides as smoothly, delivers passengers more cost efficiently, is extremely more flexible in where it can pick up and put down passengers, and has lower construction and operating costs so that it can function economically on shorter distances and with lower population. The COST PER PASSENGER MILE for 'guided busways' is much lower than for rail, especially when the number of passengers is what can be expected in Puna makai.
Try Google 'guided busway'.
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more to follow
edited to corrected spelling...
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Bottom line on all of this is the PMAR will not be built in our lifetimes.The Nimby's and anti development people will keep it from happening.Right now in Waimea an important bypass road has been stopped in it's tracks.
I predict at least a few more studies and millions wasted on nothing.
We may be lucky to have highway 130 done in the next 20 years.How are they going to work around all of the driveways that dump onto 130 ?
The county should have done their part by not allowing any more building permits if the driveway wasn't connected to an internal subdivision street.
My solution to getting something done, a building moratorium on housing for all of Puna until the road situation is improved.It especially needs to start with HPP, which is or soon will be the cause of the majority of traffic to and from Hilo.HPP needs to have a large commercial development on the scale of Malama and Longs in Pahoa.
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... a few more points raised in discussion above...
There may be some confusion that a proposal is to have a new road built just and only inside HPP -- of course, that is not at all what is being considered.
Next, someone raised the issue of splitting PMAR traffic within HPP. This idea was first raised in 2004 during the Puna Regional Cirulation Plan and I think needs to be kept alive, especially in the context of any new road traversing at the rear of lots.
Some concern was raised that this is an issue that effects all of Puna and not just HPP.
Correct.
The HPPOA PMAR Committee was formed by the HPPOA membership to learn what is going on, to keep the HPPOA membership informed, and to serve as a conduit for feedback for HPPOA membership during the PMAR planning process.
Certainly, many HPPOA members (living in and out of HPP) read and post here on PunaWeb.
While the company officers at Shipman, LLC will need to speak for that property owner, I have heard some comments over the years. Of especial concern is agricultural theft, and is already a problem along RR Ave on Shipman land. The threat to 'good' agricultural land has also been a stated concern. From my reading of the soil maps, the better land is closer to Keaau village and Highway 130 and not so good toward the ocean.
Although I have not heard Shipman company officers say it directly, there is another (IMHO, bigger) matter: easier travel that bypasses Keaau also bypasses Shipman's current and future investments in commercial development.
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Very good participation in this discussion. Many months and years to go before anything is decided, much less acted on. Stay tuned.
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All good assessments James.
Thanks.
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James - I agree. Nice assessment.
A thought: If the PMAR is located far enough down from 130, wouldn't that negate most of the chances that people traversing 130 from other subdivisions would travel all the way down, then across, then back up at some point? In other words, the further away from the existing highway, the less added traffic there might be?
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