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quote:
Originally posted by oink
In Hawaii's current employment environment Axis Deer hunting could hold very favorable possibilities for the B.I., especially with the extensive open acreage available for hunts. Perhaps that potential should be explored before rushing to eradication.
Great idea, Oink. Maybe we can import other invasive species if they benefit someone in some way.
Snake Wranglers probably have a tough time on the Big Island but if we brought some snakes in it would be good for them.
Tongue firmly in cheek here but I'm surprised someone would suggest such a stupid thing and hit "send".
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Mahalo to Sen. Kahele for taking long overdue action on this problem.
I do not oppose starting the program by letting hunters have a go at it, but I have heard many hunters, in referring to pigs, that they want to leave enough of a population alive so that they can breed and produce for next years' season. That will not solve the problem - only continue it on into the future. So let's let them have a few months of hunting and then take more serious and permanent action.
Of course, you will have the PETA people crying about killing Bambi, but they offer no solutions. Perhaps, if you have to cave into them you could shoot the males with tranquilizer darts and use elastrator bands on them. This could be done very quickly in the field. Eventually, if not renewed from Maui, the population will die out or be hunted out. A gelded stag is probably more edible than one in rut.
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quote:
Originally posted by freestate
quote:
Originally posted by oink
In Hawaii's current employment environment Axis Deer hunting could hold very favorable possibilities for the B.I., especially with the extensive open acreage available for hunts. Perhaps that potential should be explored before rushing to eradication.
Great idea, Oink. Maybe we can import other invasive species if they benefit someone in some way.
Snake Wranglers probably have a tough time on the Big Island but if we brought some snakes in it would be good for them.
Tongue firmly in cheek here but I'm surprised someone would suggest such a stupid thing and hit "send".
Well, that's just great. Someone offers a possible solution and this is the response they get? Tongue in cheek, indeed. Maybe someone could explain why the hunting suggestion is "such a stupid thing". Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that the deer are already there.
Maybe there are others that might reflect a little more before hitting "send".
I can see how this thread is going to devolve.
RB Byrd
Flower Mound, TX
RB Byrd
Flower Mound, TX
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quote:
Originally posted by Rene Siracusa
Of course, you will have the PETA people crying about killing Bambi, but they offer no solutions. Perhaps, if you have to cave into them you could shoot the males with tranquilizer darts and use elastrator bands on them. This could be done very quickly in the field. Eventually, if not renewed from Maui, the population will die out or be hunted out. A gelded stag is probably more edible than one in rut.
PETA's position is in support of the measure to prevent axis deer from coming into Hawaii County. They oppose the human transport of animals into non native areas where prey - predator does not naturally exist. Their opposition is based on the very thing being discussed that it would result in the unnatural killing of these animals for sport in the name of eradication or wildlife management. They generally oppose, on principal, hunting but if it is sanctioned as a means to prevent future killing, they usually stay out of the fray. I do not believe they would oppose government controls so long as the end result is to remove the next generation of deer that would be hunted for sport.
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The deer are already on island. Most guided hunts are for the wealthy and the wealthy already have hunting options in the islands. There could be a large market for hunts targeted at that part of the middle class that still has steady incomes. Econo lodging in the form of cabins, camps in Puna, Kau etc., or affordable hotel lodging in the traditional areas. Target patrons who would likely bring their family. It would be a boost to all areas of the economy and provide otherwise nonexistent jobs. Patrons would play the normal tourist for part of their stay. I see lots of potential for an untapped market.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
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If the hunting was effective enough to suppress the numbers in a meaningful way then canned hunts for city slickers would be too difficult and would not be a moneymaker. You can't have it both ways. Get the job done. Shoot them from the air untill there are none left. It should be done with pigs too but politically that is too hot a potato.
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I'm sure Syd Singer is already writing a letter to the Editor in defence of Bambi.
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[/quote]
Great idea, Oink. Maybe we can import other invasive species if they benefit someone in some way.
Snake Wranglers probably have a tough time on the Big Island but if we brought some snakes in it would be good for them.
Tongue firmly in cheek here but I'm surprised someone would suggest such a stupid thing and hit "send".
[/quote]
Well, that's just great. Someone offers a possible solution and this is the response they get? Tongue in cheek, indeed. Maybe someone could explain why the hunting suggestion is "such a stupid thing". Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that the deer are already there.
Maybe there are others that might reflect a little more before hitting "send".
I can see how this thread is going to devolve.
RB Byrd
Flower Mound, TX
[/quote]
OK, I had time to think about it driving to Kona airport and back and thought that maybe I had fallen for troll-bait per Oink's suggestion.
If so, my face is red.
But if Oink is serious (and seems to be since he doubled-down with another post) then I will stand by the fact that supporting a destructive invasive species for the benefit of a very few to the detriment of many and further harm to the ecosystem here isn't just stupid; its colossally stupid.
The deer are present in small enough numbers to be dealt with now. To say that they should be propagated for sport leisure hunting is asinine. Its like saying once-upon-a-time that the Coqui could be a boon for those selling earplugs and hydrated lime so lets do all we can to spread them.
Idiocy is about as good as it gets for the idea that the deer would be "a real good opportunity".
What I fear is that the deer get established in the gulches and inaccessible areas. Hunters don't go in those areas. The deer can nip topside and ravage gardens. The pigs already do that.
The pigs aren't confined to hunting preserves. They are roaming private property and tearing up landscaping, lawns, doing a ton of damage.
If the deer could be kept in hunting preserves that would be different.
I heard a short presentation this week from people who are working with thousands of acres on Hamakua to remove invasives and replant the land with native species, plants and native birds. In order to succeed, they have to fence off the whole thing, because of the pigs. Pig fencing doesn't have to be as high as deer fencing though. The expense of effective deer fencing is no joke, and it wouldn't be pretty in paradise either.
I have nothing against hunting other than that it won't keep the pests without predators from wreaking havoc. The enthusiastic energy on island for sustainable gardening would get a huge setback -- and that is an important movement. Lots of kids at risk are getting involved in the sustainable food projects.
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Most of the island posters here have brought up a lot of good points.... however...
Some of us on island forget that those on the forum in places like Florida & Texas do not "get" the problem with introducing an animal that is a desired game animal, with NO natural predators, onto this island.
Those off island posters may never have treked in the far reaches of the gulches, nor may they have scrambled over the the remote areas in upper Mauna Loa, Kea or the Kohalas...To a hunter from Florida, elevation is not some thing to think about....and the changes over short distances here just do not exist there.... even a Texan would be hard pressed to find the elevation & temp. changes you would experience in an "normal" hunt day here....
They also may never have seen some of the critical habitat that still has remnants of Hawaii's endemic species. They are not living where there is such a delicate balance of nature.... Their home has a mixture of many different species, their native species do not have the highest rate of extinction in the country....
Maybe if they were here, they would "get it".
But so many of us here have a hard time... the axis deer problem on this island has been investigated for almost half a century, the government almost imported them at the request of the hunters years ago, as they did on other islands...luckily the import did not happen then....and in the interim, the problems of importing these deer was highlighted on other islands....
Hopefully, if they are here, the deer will not consume extensive tracks of critical habitat or agriculturally important lands before they are eradicated...
Unfortunately, there will be a very large cost if they are here, a cost some selfish individuals will have dumped on every tax payer here...
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