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Hey freestate,
you got to admit, I got your attention. I tried the normal approach in the past and no one really cares.
Midnight Rambler has brought up some great points and I respect that. I enjoy a bit of "thick skin" discussion. Hell, some of my best friends are haole and we talk sh@t all the time. Like I said, I'm not pointing out anyone individual.
Relax, Enjoy the ride!
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Kipa, you should be ashamed for referring to someone as a haole, clearly an unacceptable term on this forum. In the future please substitute the term racist, as it's use is acceptable.
haole oink
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Posts: 92
Threads: 6
Joined: May 2009
quote:
Originally posted by kipa
You (blank) are the worst invasive species. You (blank) and its people and now you come to (blank) and think you know everything. You people are parasites!
Oink, on second thought I think you're right. If you just substitute any other ethnic group or nationality Kipa's statements is thoughtful and insightful; especially later when he insulted someone's mother. Nothing at all like a thirteen-year-old's behavior.
I only objected because I want to control people's language and thoughts, not because I called "BS" when I heard it.
Oh wait...I meant the opposite of what I just wrote.
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Ok, do you know how you all feel about me? that feeling? Try to image how it feels when Americans say "get over it" when it comes to Hawaiian issues. I can't remember how many times I've heard that in my life. Well thats what it feels like.
As far as being open minded, so far KathyH you've been a good sport. You took the time to research and even make suggestions. Notice how many open minding people are willing to agree even just a little with some of your suggestions. Pretty much zero right?
No matter how issues are brought out most people have their minds made up no matter what. Only truly open minded people will find some common ground.
That is the problem with issues such as this. Very few open minded individuals are willing to look at the whole picture. They see only what they want to see and attempt to dismiss others. Many use elegant words and friendly dialect
and say they are open minded but inside they are not.
They dismiss our rights written in our State constitution that our government must provide us with game and hunting in our public lands. Our public lands belong to all of us and if some of us want to hunt game, then don't we have that right?
Its all about balance. The mountain is big enough to provide habitats for endangered plants and animals and allow some areas for upland hunting. They can fence off 25 miles of lava in PTA with 8 foot high chain link fence but they can't fence
off an area for the sheep to live in.
They say, " look at the map, theres 10,000 acres of hunting area and the hunter are complaining". When you go to the area you see that 80 to 90% of it is inhabitable. No food or water, mostly lava fields. So on paper things look good
but in reality its not.
The invasive species gang, indoctrinated biologist and native species fanatics want it only their way. Two years ago I watched them do the palila bird count. For two weeks the mountain was socked in with heavy clouds and fog. One couldn't see
30 feet from the vehicle. They came back with the bird count and the numbers were down 40%. This data was marked as official. Can you hostly believe these people? no recount on a better day or anything like that. Just push their agenda through at what every the cost.
Now their a pushing to kill off the rest of the sheep or as much as they can by Christmas. That way when they do the bird count again, ON A SUNNY DAY they can say "see look theres more birds already!" you watch and see!
Call me what you may... but I've just about seen it all.
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You see. freestate, some one like you has nothing to offer but repeating yourself over and over. You are what you are!
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Kipa, I have no common ground with your viewpoint or your feelings. I've experienced Anglo racists too but don't think that all Anglo are "parasites".
I believe in repairing or minimizing the damage to the Big Island. Your position is in opposition to that so no common ground. I think bringing Axis Deer is a very bad idea and will have far more negative consequences than positive. I don't think there is a compromise because they should not be allowed on the island, they won't be controlled.
I've heard your argument and don't agree with your points. You've offered nothing but conjecture, its not convincing. Because I don't agree with you doesn't make me anti-Hawaii.
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I have been monitoring this thread since my last post, and it is nice to see a discussion in which both sides have presented valid points as well as a comparison to the current sheep issue.
Kipa has posted an accurate history about the events leading toward todays aerial sheep eradications, and indeed new research is needed! There are so many mamane trees; on a drive over saddle when heading from hilo to kona, facing right looking up toward the slopes of Mauna Kea literally every tree is a mamane or naio with the vast majority of them being mamane, the palila's lifeline. This past July, 2011 I was able to spend many hours in the Mauna Kea forest reserve and observed many of the mamane trees with so many seeds that they looked like they would fall over from such a heavy load. (pictures can be found here
https://profiles.google.com/103465580712...064/photos) With so many seeds for the palila to eat, there is clearly another cause for their decline. DLNR should be spending tax payer dollars on actual research to save the palila rather than thousands every time they take the chopper up for an aerial slaughter. There are 3 more planned eradications before Christmas of this year! What a waste of resources and money. There is no doubt that they will carelessly approach the axis deer situation in the same way. As always there is preferred balance that can be achieved between introduced animals such as sheep and axis deer with the native ecosystem that will never be considered, our government will always take the easy way out. I feel that the introduction of axis deer could have been avoided had different actions been taken toward dealing with the wild sheep on our island.
freestate- We all get how you feel: "I think bringing Axis Deer is a very bad idea " but you have not provided any argument of worth. All you do is blindly stand behind your ideas and complain about name calling over the net -> whoop di doo. I take it quite offensively for someone who is not from Hawaii or the Big Island to say "I believe in repairing or minimizing the damage to the Big Island" to someone who grew up here such as myself, after my family has lived here for generations. I would never go to yours or anybody elses hometown and say I believe in repairing the damage that was done here. Who are you to move here and say what is right, or best for the Big Island?! My family as well as the family's of many who have lived here for generations have contributed to make Hawaii what it is today, and you are calling that "damaged". Now that's insulting, I'd take axis deer over anti-Hawaii people like yourself any day.
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quote:
[i]
freestate- We all get how you feel: "I think bringing Axis Deer is a very bad idea " but you have not provided any argument of worth. All you do is blindly stand behind your ideas and complain about name calling over the net -> whoop di doo. I take it quite offensively for someone who is not from Hawaii or the Big Island to say "I believe in repairing or minimizing the damage to the Big Island" to someone who grew up here such as myself, after my family has lived here for generations. I would never go to yours or anybody elses hometown and say I believe in repairing the damage that was done here. Who are you to move here and say what is right, or best for the Big Island?! My family as well as the family's of many who have lived here for generations have contributed to make Hawaii what it is today, and you are calling that "damaged". Now that's insulting, I'd take axis deer over anti-Hawaii people like yourself any day.
Here we have the fundamentalist position. Those that agree with you are "good ones", right?
The idea that bringing eating/breeding machines with NO predators into a damaged ecosystem is not good is seventh-grade-biology. That is where you should have learned that principle, not my job to teach it to you.
I don't understand how being here for generations affects the ecological concept the Axis Deer issue brings to light.
People are trying to change the argument to sheep, or make it a Native Hawaiian issue. Straw man arguments.
And to say that Hawaii's ecosystem isn't damaged from invasive species already is not living in reality. Ask a biologist working on the Big Island how healthy the island's ecosystem is. Just because parts look pretty doesn't make it a healthy ecosystem overall.
Opposing Axis Deer on the Big Island doesn't make you anti-hunting or a person that wants to starve the poor.
But I get your point. I don't agree with you therefor I'm anti-Hawaiian.
Got it.
Posts: 2,654
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quote:
Originally posted by SaveHawaiisWildlife: (pictures can be found here https://profiles.google.com/103465580712...064/photos)
Thanks, those are nice pics on that link.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
]