I've driven some subdivisions finally

[rusty h]

thanks, i didnt thank so

[missydog1]

Well, it sounds like you feel confident that you are aware of all the potential pitfalls or don't care about them, but I can't help but feel some concern.

You are offering to buy an unpermitted home in the midst of a big controversy on the new building code. Perhaps a stop by the Punaweb building forum would be helpful. Kapohocat knows a whole lot about what you might face.

Have you been told by a professional that the unpermitted home could be brought up to code without drastic changes?

http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/sections/...asure.html

Do you understand that the attitude taken by the Building Dept with As-Built permits may be draconian and less helpful than what people experience with pulling permits on new construction or additions/alterations to permitted work?

ETA link to recent article.
btw, there was an amnesty not long ago for legalizing unpermitted construction, from 2006-07.

[csgray]

Over the years I have known a lot of people on section 8. They were mostly single moms and people with disabilities. Every person I knew who was on section 8 really struggled to find a landlord who would rent to them, and as a result worked really hard to keep their landlord happy so they could stay in their housing. Many had fled abusive relationships and had very little in resources. Often there was PTSD or other mental issues at play as well. Several were working full time at minimum wage jobs with no benefits that didn't allow them to be self sufficient. None of them were child abusers, drug addicts, or any of the other scary stereotypes mentioned in this thread. If you drove by their homes you would never have known they were section 8. I do have neighbors who are not on section 8 who fit all of those stereotypes and their off island landlord will be in for a real shock when they next see their destroyed house. So don't automatically assume the junky places are section 8, I think they are just as often off island owners who just want the rent check and to avoid spending any money on the rental.

Almost everyone I knew on section 8 were exploited by their landlords in one way or another over the years. Not things which could result in the house not passing the inspection, but things that make someplace feel like it is not really your home. Things like following the law on warning tenants before the landlord or a workman shows up, not sending creepy predatory fix-it guys over, not prying into the personal business of the tenant or questioning them about who they were dating (not who they had living there, just who they were dating) and so on.

The big problem with section 8 is the unequal power relationship between the parties. The landlord often is getting less than market rate rent, plus they deal with a lot of extra paperwork. The tenants are not dealing with a competitive market for their business, they cannot just tell a bad landlord to shove it and move. Finally, the landlord knows the tenant pays only a small part of the rent, so they don't always treat them the way they would treat someone who pays all the rent out of their pocket. The system has a lot of flaws, for both landlords and tenants, but here the alternative is to have kids and disabled people sleeping in cars and under tarps.

edited to fix a typo

Carol

[missydog1]

Carol,
you may be surprised at this, but I actually agree with your thoughts on this for the most part. Although I am not so sure that all the people you knew were recipients in Puna, or that the answer would be 100% true if you could knock on every door in Puna.

quote:

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things that make someplace feel like it is not really your home. Things like following the law on warning tenants before the landlord or a workman shows up, not sending creepy predatory fix-it guys over,

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well, I've that happen while paying high rent as well, and still had the landlord unresponsive to my objections, but I don't disagree that a power imbalance makes it more likely.

I don't stereotype people for getting Section 8, nor do I stereotype people for being poor. I'm poor ... and raised a family while being really poor. I know what it's like and I don't sit in judgment.

The stories I have gotten about a couple Puna neighborhoods actually came from people who grew up in that situation, NOT from judgmental people who were on the outside.

Actually I had forgotten all about it when I made the original post on this, but my own house was Section 8 at one time. The owners were a slumlord family with one brother here and one on Oahu, owning numerous rentals in my area, all in disrepair. Repairs were not made here because the tenant was not allowed to do his own work on the place due to HUD regulations, and the landlord would not.

The tenant was a pot-grower for his real income, but not a meth head. I learned all of this from my neighbors after buying the place. The house was very thoroughly rehab'd and upgraded by the owner who bought it from the slumlord (and got a clean home inspection), and the pot garden had become a rose garden, so I've pretty much forgotten about its history as it's all so changed now.

One of my sons worked with crews of local Puna kids doing construction, and they certainly didn't hold back telling of their experiences growing up on assistance (for example, in Ainaloa) ... getting beaten by their parents/relatives, making raids on the haole houses for good stuff with no remorse or feeling of guilt ... just feeling that those who have are fair game for those who have not.

I'm not saying everyone is of this mentality, but to say that no one is would not be accurate either. And not everyone who moves here, buys cheap property, and sets up shop is of great character either. I recognize that reality without feeling that poor people and single parents should be stereotyped or stigmatized as if all cut from the same pattern. I definitely believe that we should get to know people before deciding what they are like.

A problem with buying property in a strange area though, is you can't get to know the people. Talking to a friendly person for five minutes is not enough.

I do like the idea of going and hanging out on Fri and Sat night, although unfortunately that won't work when you have vacant parcels next to you.

Tip: never assume the owner of the vacant lot will select a sensible footprint. Always check the setbacks in the zoning you have, and be hyper aware of any easements, especially if your structure is built close to your property line. []

[kani-lehua]

quote:

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Originally posted by KathyH

kani,
I give you big props for renting out your property taking Section 8. Many landlords with affordable housing just put No Section 8 in the ad. I apologize for over-generalizing. I am definitely pro affordable housing.

However, in spite of you being one of the good ones, there certainly is a Section 8/slumlord dynamic present in parts of the island, that has been around a long time. There are inspections required to keep basics going, but people (in general) don't improve rental properties when the cash flow can't go up when they do, and they keep repairs as minimal as they can.

But I'm not talking about run down properties, more the mentality that goes along with the long term welfare culture (in general, always exceptions); I'm talking about pockets where the families can get County housing but they are still broke and they turn to dealing drugs for extra cash. Or they do drugs and drink heavily because their lives aren't going anywhere. And families are beating on each other.

kani, you might find this article interesting as you have a place to rent and aren't getting the applicants. It appears the last time people on the wait list were given vouchers was five years ago. The waiting list is huge.
http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/sections/...g-aid.html

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We are getting lots of responses, but just haven't found the "right fit" as previously mentioned. We screen, screen and double screen.

We've been landlords for decades and are very well aware of the wait list. One couple had been waiting for 2 years (Hawaii County) and just got their voucher. I believe the list is closed on O'ahu but am not 100% sure of that.

A couple NOT on Section8; had 7 cats; 1 dog; a tractor; 3 40'containers (that are still sitting on their property after 9 years) and are losing their home were actually considered. Imagine that?!



"a great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."

w. james

[Rene Siracusa]

The thing about the lava zone 1 and 2 designations isn't the lava. It means that you can't get insurance, except perhaps at an exhorbitant rate. It means you can't use the equity to get banks to loan you money. And if you want to sell, the prospective buyers can't get bank loans, so you either have to do an A/S or deal with buyers who can afford an outright purchase. The situation decreases the size of the buyer pool. Since these lava zones were created (and not for purposes of insurance or bank loans) they have not changed, even though the lava flows have. Caveat emptor.

[SandyS]

We are in lava zone two and were able to get insurance easily on our home and less expensive than we were paying on the mainland. Dan DeSota is our agent. dan@mutualunderwriters.com
Selling may present a problem, but I know many homes have been bought in our area in the past few months.