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HPPOA still pushing for road fees??
#31
quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
1. Laws in place at the time these subdivisions were created require all roads to be paved prior to final plat approval.

2. County allowed the subdivisions to be finalized without paved roads.

3. County is therefore ultimately liable for all damages related to the unpaved roads.

4. It will take a very expensive lawsuit to "force" County to acknowledge their responsibility.

Alternately: if County wants to claim that "nothing can be done" because these roads are "private", fine, but that "nothing" needs to be 100%, including telling the State DoH to butt out.

And meanwhile the mayor gets a raise for doing... what?
What does our mayor do for us?
I keep forgetting.
Or perhaps I never knew.

Frank's point of establishing speed limits is a good one, and I agree it's needed. However 82/83 only address side roads (paved/unpaved). While this is tied into dust of course, the fact remains as stated above: the county is liable for the current situation, and the HPP board has failed completely to uphold the rights of this community. Speed limits will not change the history of this situation (though they may save lives). That's not the answer with regard to residents paying thousands a year due to county negligence and HPPOA wussyness.

The question remains: How do we push back effectively on DoH, leveraging the County's liability and lack of accountability in this situation?

The board won't do it, they've proven that. The attorney they've 'hired' is a joke (see similarities to our "mayor", representative of the people; that's a total hoot!).

Is it realistic to think we can retain our own attorney somehow (one who has a clue preferably; rare, but they do exist)? If all of the residents got onto the same page (and took the Board directly out of the loop), is it possible we could fight this? If every resident (except for 3, of course) signed off, yelled loudly, went public...

I'm just grasping here, but somehow I don't think we've made enough noise as a community, AND we made the mistake of letting the board be our voice - guaranteed failure.

-- rainshadow
-- rainshadow
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#32
Can anyone enlighten me (and sorry if I should already know this) but why is HPP in particular being targeted for dust?? All kinds of roads, all over the place in puna are dirty and dusty.
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#33


Because some HPP residents filed a formal complaint with the authorities. You're right, many of the other Puna subdivisions could be subject to the same kinds of complaints.
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#34


Tyranny of the minority. Best example is the "S.P.A.C.E. Special-Use" (which persists despite the original complainants having moved off-island).

It would be cheaper for everyone if the subdivisions were grandfathered in-place, and the current infrastructure (or lack thereof) made a required disclosure for all real-estate transactions.

The current situation is like buying a house near the airport, then complaining about how noisy it is, and starting a campaign to have the airport shut down. Seriously, if you didn't want to live next to the airport (or on a dusty unpaved road, or outside the broadband service area, etc), why did you buy a house there?
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#35
Oh wow. Amazing. Sort of like putting a bullseye right on HPP's chest.
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#36

[/quote]

Tyranny of the minority. Best example is the "S.P.A.C.E. Special-Use" (which persists despite the original complainants having moved off-island).

It would be cheaper for everyone if the subdivisions were grandfathered in-place, and the current infrastructure (or lack thereof) made a required disclosure for all real-estate transactions.

The current situation is like buying a house near the airport, then complaining about how noisy it is, and starting a campaign to have the airport shut down. Seriously, if you didn't want to live next to the airport (or on a dusty unpaved road, or outside the broadband service area, etc), why did you buy a house there?
[/quote]

Well, the SPACE case is a little different from my understanding...they had a special use permit that allowed specific activities and uses, but then they began sponsoring activities that went waaaay beyond what was allowed in their permit. In the HPP case, the complaining owners knew they were buying on a dirt road so I have little sympathy for them. In the SPACE case, the complaining owners were objecting to an unauthorized, dramatic expansion of SPACE activities in a residential neighborhood that was adversely affecting their quality of life. One could argue that SPACE's activities were good for the community at large, but if you lived next door or across the street you might have a different opinion, since the noise, extra traffic, etc. would directly affect you more than "the community at large."
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#37
quote:
Originally posted by KeaauRich
Well, the SPACE case is a little different from my understanding...they had a special use permit that allowed specific activities and uses, but then they began sponsoring activities that went waaaay beyond what was allowed in their permit.


Only in that HPP has stated its intent to pave/maintain their roads, and this posture is documented enough that it could be discovered during buyers' due diligence.

Otherwise not that different; in both cases, a very small minority is attempting to inflict their idea of "community" on everyone else.
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#38
I agree that the speed limits are a good idea.
MAHALO!

I agree that the DOH is overreaching and their decision should be contested.
so DID "Frank"...........he was on the fugitive dust committee....one of his recommendations was to consult an Environmental Attorney, experienced in negotiation with the Clean Air Branch . (His 26 years in environmental business on Oahu taught him that this was step #1 !)

I also agree that the County should assume some responsibility......

I've read the story of wrong doing........court order to pave our roads......roads didn't get paid.....don't know if there are statutes of limitation .....political will to even fight this.....but it's a different battle anyway.


Unfortunately, The county has no authority with the State of Hawaii Department of Health, CLEAN AIR BRANCH to negotiate on our behalf.

The CLEAN AIR BRANCH gets it's instructions from Federal EPA. The CAB has a procedure to follow and it follows it. (people can not withdraw their complaint.....a field inspection has already been done...and the CAB has already determined that HPPOA is in violation of this federally mandated law)

One of the cheapest remedies we can do.... NOW... in our required 'REASONABLE PRECAUTION POLICY " IS to bring awareness to the need of all of us to slow down on our dirt roads.
AND GET PEOPLE TO SLOW DOWN. Honestly think this could curb the complaints immensely.
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#39
quote:
Originally posted by reni

The CLEAN AIR BRANCH gets it's instructions from Federal EPA. The CAB has a procedure to follow and it follows it. (people can not withdraw their complaint.....a field inspection has already been done...and the CAB has already determined that HPPOA is in violation of this federally mandated law)


Awesome. Let's all help the process along by lodging complaints about every unpaved road, especially the County ones. It's our duty as citizens to hasten the collapse so we can collect our fat Federal bailout!
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#40
Can anyone enlighten me (and sorry if I should already know this) but why is HPP in particular being targeted for dust?? All kinds of roads, all over the place in puna are dirty and dusty.

Here's a condensed version of one violation (as was explained to me....and what I read from the minutes and copy of their petition submitted)

2010
People on a particular road where complaining to our management and the board. Early morning commuters were attempting to save some time by cutting thru HPP on their way into town. Cars were speeding.....causing immense dust......and an unsafe condition. Their Calls to our office did not help....they began to threaten....they submitted a petition containing solutions. When nothing got done, They finally made good on their threat and complained to the Board of Health.
Several other complaints from different ares were called in to the Department of Health.
The CAB is MANDATED by law to protect human health. Fugitive Dust is a known health hazard.They HAD to investigate by law.
So now HPP as opposed to other areas with fugitive dust is
Kind of like you, being in a string of cars ......all traveling over the speed limit. The police pulls over only you.......You're the one with the ticket.......not the other speeders. You now have the joy of answering to your offense......while the other drivers ,just drove home.

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