Posts: 14,084
Threads: 424
Joined: Aug 2012
A biodiesel-fired Lister would easily provide enough power for a handful of homes, more so if each also had some solar panels.
The common "spaghetti lot" confguration provides an ideal "back line in common" for microgrid distribution (assuming enough neighbors, etc) with no need to "cross the road".
Of course, it's illegal to sell power across a TMK boundary (unless you're HELCO), so this would have to be set up as a co-op ... but by the time you fend off the lawsuit, HELCO's power is probably cheaper. I'm sure this is just a coincidence.
Posts: 1,595
Threads: 111
Joined: May 2007
The Hawaii County energy consumer pays HELCO something like $8000 a pole for the privilege of paying HELCO's exorbitant tribute.
At these rates, I think it would be very easy and cost effective for individuals to invest in their own infrastructure. Like Kalakoa mentioned, they would have to do so as an energy coop and be prepared to fight off HELCO's attorneys.
Fuel cells are coming, Raj the solar guy had a one cylinder generator generator that runs on any fuel, including home grown oil, that would power several homes. These options, plus solar and wind make micro grids affordable; especially when compared to the $10,000/year that six or so homes would pay HELCO at their ever increasing rates.(After the $40,000 or so for grid infrastructure.)
I'm not trying to vilify HELCO, but let's be honest;
1. Their interest lies in paying their investors more than you or I.
and
2. They're not to excited about trying any innovative strategies or technology.
They're a dinosaur; slow moving, slow to adapt, and they are headed for extinction.
"Other than that, Mrs Lincoln, how'd you like the play?"
[8D]
Posts: 2,244
Threads: 396
Joined: Nov 2011
FYI: Tribune Herald Article
Councilman drops changes to GMO bill
By TOM CALLIS
County Council Chairman J Yoshimoto is dropping his proposed amendments to Bill 113 after receiving negative feedback from the public.
The amendments, filed Nov. 5, would have exempted the horticulture industry from the bill’s ban on open-air use of transgenic crops, removed a registry for modified plants, and allowed the planning commissions to hear proposals for emergency exemptions.
Yoshimoto said he filed the changes to address criticism of the bill from the horticulture industry, papaya growers and other testifiers.
Yoshimoto and Wille both said they expect a vote to be reached at the Tuesday meeting, after testimony concludes. If approved, it would be sent to Mayor Billy Kenoi for consideration. Kenoi can sign the bill, veto it, or let it go into effect without his signature.
He told Stephens Media Hawaii last week that it’s too early to comment since the bill has yet to be sent to him.
“We just look forward to see what emerges from the County Council,” Kenoi said. “There’s a lot of questions as to what will be in or won’t be in.
“We wish the County Council luck.”
full story here http://westhawaiitoday.com/sections/news...-bill.html
My note: "Russell" stated (Bold by me):
Richard,
You quote Darwin's book title, while igoring the key word:
"The Origin of Species
By Means of Natural Selection..."
Natural selection refers to variation within species, as nature intended. Darwin would be as pissed about your misuse of his words and science as Hector or myself when you twist our words.
Wow! Now this "Russell" professes to know how Darwin would think? Impressive.
Posts: 526
Threads: 11
Joined: Oct 2006
"Natural selection refers to variation within species, as nature intended."
Sorry, nature doesn't "intend" anything. Nature just happens. And how do you think new species come about if variation only occurs "within species?"
"variation within species"
You perhaps have an outdated concept of species, probably the old one based on morphology, the shapes of plant structures, rather than genetics. In any event, crossing between plant species is common in any kind of plant breeding.
Posts: 71
Threads: 4
Joined: Nov 2008
Pete says "And how do you think new species come about if variation only occurs "within species?"
You perhaps have an outdated concept of species, probably the old one based on morphology, the shapes of plant structures, rather than genetics. In any event, crossing between plant species is common in any kind of plant breeding."
New species are created by variation within species, and subsequent natural selection, until the variation is so great that DNA can no longer be exchanged with the original variety. This is the origin of species, perhaps you've heard of it? See 'Darwin.'
My "concept of species" is the one used by science, thanks.
Crossing between plant species is not how plant breeding is done. Plant breeding is within a species in traditional breeding. The ability to exchange DNA through sexual reproduction is what defines a species.
Russell
Russell
Posts: 526
Threads: 11
Joined: Oct 2006
"Plant breeding is within a species in traditional breeding"
Excuse me? We have between 300 and 400 vireya rhododendron hybrids at the nursery that are nearly all the result of crosses between rhododendron species, not within species. Further, many of the advances in disease and insect resistance in traditional plant breeding (as well as GMO) comes by crossing (i.e., taking genes from) primitive landrace ancestor species and mixing with their already highly crossed descendants, today's fruits and vegetables. Let's not even get into the introduction of genomic material into plants and animals by viruses and bacteria.
You may be thinking of the definition of species commonly used with animals where inability to interbreed is the traditional criteria. Actually, with our advances in genetics, the academic concept of species, at least in plants, is changing significantly these days. Darwin's knowledge of species was primitive compared what is today known of the genetic basis of phylogenesis, the evolution and diversification of organisms, which I do know something about having written a couple of articles on the topic.
Posts: 307
Threads: 7
Joined: Feb 2011
quote:
Originally posted by Greg
At these rates, I think it would be very easy and cost effective for individuals to invest in their own infrastructure. Like Kalakoa mentioned, they would have to do so as an energy coop and be prepared to fight off HELCO's attorneys.
Given how hard it is to get Puna residents to agree for long on such mundane matters as what to do about collecting unpaid road fees to their HOA, and whether or not to have speed bumps on their streets, how realistic do you think it would be to unite them on something a lot more impactful on their lives and a lot more expensive, like building their own micro-grid for power distribution would be?
I give it zero chance of success, simply based on a study of human nature and a reading of history. I mean, I've seen neighbors come to blows and then end up in court over a fence.
quote:
Fuel cells are coming, Raj the solar guy had a one cylinder generator generator that runs on any fuel, including home grown oil, that would power several homes. These options, plus solar and wind make micro grids affordable; especially when compared to the $10,000/year that six or so homes would pay HELCO at their ever increasing rates.(After the $40,000 or so for grid infrastructure.)
Currently HELCO's minimum rate is $25.50 a month for grid-tie accounts which feed as much energy back into the grid as they use. And I know several people who are doing that, exactly.
Fuel cells are great, but they need investment and fuel and maintenance and a place to put the equipment, plus the connections and micro-grid... and meantime one of the families wants out, and another lost his job and can't pay, and another couple is divorcing... and everybody is just doing all the stuff people do. The great thing about a real utility is that there's nothing personal about it, and what your idiot neighbor does really has nothing to do with whether your lights will work when you get home from work.
quote:
I'm not trying to vilify HELCO, but let's be honest;
1. Their interest lies in paying their investors more than you or I.
This is no surprise, nor should it be. That's the design of the structure.
quote:
2. They're not to excited about trying any innovative strategies or technology.
Nor should this be a surprise either. That's not the business they are in. Utilities are by nature very conservative.
quote:
They're a dinosaur; slow moving, slow to adapt, and they are ...
... still going to be there for you if your little plan for your nabe falls apart? Yeah, that's what I was going to say, too. 
There's no question that they're a slow moving, highly bureaucratic organization, but what do you expect, seriously, from a small mostly rural utility in a small and mostly rural county in a small and highly bureaucratic state? They aren't the Evil Empire, they're Toonerville Light and Power. Try to keep a sense of humor about that, because it helps keep expectations in check.
Posts: 785
Threads: 6
Joined: Apr 2012
quote:
Originally posted by OpenD
There's no question that they're a slow moving, highly bureaucratic organization, but what do you expect, seriously, from a small mostly rural utility in a small and mostly rural county in a small and highly bureaucratic state? They aren't the Evil Empire, they're Toonerville Light and Power. Try to keep a sense of humor about that, because it helps keep expectations in check.
Wonderful post - glad to see that someone can maintain a sense of humor on these issues...
Posts: 2,481
Threads: 10
Joined: Feb 2008
My thoughts exactly OpenD. HELCO is only a business. They are motivated by profit? How dare they! Darn commies! Oh, wait....
There would also be all sorts of liability concerns that we as end consumers are blithely ignorant of, that is until we become a power company and have to deal with these folks.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/257197828689943324/
Posts: 81
Threads: 5
Joined: Sep 2008
Aloha Russell. I presume this is Senator Ruderman. There you go again. I read Darwin's book, The origin of species. Its on my kindle list. It was written in the 1800's. The main point was adapting to change. I think Darwin woukd see GMO's as adapting to change. You say that Darwin would not approve because it is "not natural". That is a stretch to me. I did find his second voyage especially interesting.
Re: accusing me of twisting your and Hector's words stunned me when you first did it.
People can make up their own minds. http://www.bigislandchronicle.com/2013/1.../#comments.
I pointed out that Hector advised organic growers to seek out high end niche markets and you disapproved of my characterization. But, he said it and I agree that organic farmers need to seek out specialty markets to make ends meet. The input costs in Hawaii are so much higher than their competitors- the industrial organic farms on the mainland. I said, there was a market for locally grown organic food and that was ok. But lots of folks would not. be able to afford it so we need to find low cost solutions as well.
I pointed out that you sponsored an anti fracking bill in the Senate and tried to make it look like I was pro fracking. I could not believe you tried to do that. In Hawaii, we have the conditions to make steam. We don't need fracking. To sponsor a bill to do fracking when no one needs it is insulting to our intelligence. It appeared to be fear mongering to me.
Are you going to sponsor a bill to ban Round Up again? The technology to detect minute amounts has improved tremendously. But, just because we can detect gold in ocean water does not mean we should invest in a business mining gold from ocean water. It's common sense.
|
