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Sen Ruderman, where is the proof
I'd expect a comment like that from a pro GMO like yourself PaulW. Do a little research on the man in the video. He knows more than most folks, and he wants to let people know the truth. I'm sure the man knows what he's talking about. I'm pretty sure that's why other states invite him over, to educate their farmers.

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Beachboy,

As a voluntary specimen - PaulW is exhibiting some of the side effects of GMO here in the forum. He's having problems making his way through the maze at the moment, irritable and attempting to bite. Be advised; this is all normal behavior under his diet selection. Unfortunately we'll simply have to write him off as another victim of GMO and Glyphosate poisoning. In reality there's nothing funny about it, it's really sad and he has my sympathies.

- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.
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Irritable? Your gullibility causes me belly laughs almost every day! I'll have to see if I can find some good youtube videos to make you conclude that flour or aluminum or tacos are the work of the devil and need to be banned now!

The plural of anecdote is not data.
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Ok, I was going to be one of the peanut gallery using the "How many people have to die at a train crossing before something is done" and in this case, nobody, but I won't. I would still like the senator (if he really follows this) to explain why there wasn't a total ban. If GMOs are so bad, why leave corn and papaya? And what if Coffee found a way by genetically modifying to get rid of that beetle. Do you let that industry die? What if you could genetically modify a plant that could produce it's own nitrogen? And yes, testing, testing, testing. The GMO train has already left the station. Sorry for the cheesy metaphors.

Just to let people know, I live in the Puna District.
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http://www.holisticmed.com/ge/roundup.html

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PaulW,
You have yet to produce one peer reviewed study that demonstrates there are no health hazards connected to GE crops and you've provided no link directly or indirectly that show extensive long term studies demonstrating the promised benefits were achieved. You have merely produced pointless quoted artifact and call it "science". Yet on the other side of the coin, there have been several independent peer reviewed studies preformed that do indeed show ill health effects directly connected with GE crop products that have been cited throughout this thread. There have been several studies preformed that demonstrate counter productivity in GE crops across the globe and this information was also released by the WHO sponsored by the world banking institution. Because they fail to meet with your opinion, you baselessly toss them out the window and have the audacity to claim them as anecdotal and expect your furthered rhetoric to contain merit? As per the actual anecdotal evidence within the clip, at minimum it reflects an immediate need for furthered investigation.
Just out of curiosity, how much further up your own keister do you intend to shove that GMO inflated head of yours?
Thanks for the laughs. Smile


- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.
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Wao nahele kane,

What makes you think you will convince PaulW or vice versa? You each have your opinions. They each have their place. You should both quit baiting each other on the subject. Ultimately the GMO issue will not be decided here.

Assume the best and ask questions.

Punaweb moderator
Assume the best and ask questions.

Punaweb moderator
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Agreed Rob...
The issue will resolve itself, unfortunately for the environment and living beings, the resolve may prove to be the undoing of both as we wait for definitive results.

- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.
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The problem in Puna is accepting scaremongering and anti-science beliefs as acceptable alternatives to education and rational reasoning. This chart isn't the best, the year 2000 label should be over to the right more, but it demonstrates the connection between technology and explosive human population growth:

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.....image.jpg

As can be seen, human population growth became exponential due to the 1st Industrial Revolution and mechanized farming. With the development of germ theory (bacteria and virus), followed shortly by vaccines, the population growth rate became even faster.

Organic farming is not something new. It was the first form of farming, roughly 7000 years old. Looking at the chart, transitioning from hunter-gatherer to agrarian, which allowed for the development of civilization, the human population growth born/dead ratio changed very little. Essentially, for every person born, one died. Average lifespans changed very little, staying about 48 years for thousands of years. From the 1st Industrial Revolution in the late 1800's, lifespans began rapidly lengthening and the born/dead ratio started going from 1:1 to 2:1 to 3:1, more people born with fewer dying as early and more people living longer.

Corporate farming became prominent in the 1970's and it is corporate farming that is able to feed this increasing population. Corporate farming is actually allowing human population to grow, not killing off people. If 7,000 year old organic farming was the only practice allowed, there would be mass starvation due to very low efficiency. It would be a solution for the population bomb problem though. This chart only goes up to present day with 7.2 billion humans on this planet. There are extrapolations of this chart where it doesn't keep going skyward, that limits are reached in food production (there is a limit to arable land http://static4.businessinsider.com/image...e-land.jpg) and in one extrapolation, there is massive starvation ahead if something isn't done. Scientists know what needs to be done to prevent this exponential curve from collapsing, or at least move the collapse further out. That is, grow more food from less area. This means changing the plants to require less fertilizer to grow more. There is a lot of progress in this area, but then these fruits and vegetables are GMO.

The historical data proves that technology is actually saving lives, not harming lives. The damage to the ecosphere environment is not due to technology, it is due to too many humans. If the human population were reduced by 1/2 or 2/3 (eliminating 3 or 4 billion people), the Earth would return to a more natural state. The changes we humans are making to this planet only affect us and whatever fauna and flora we wipe out with our massive consumption needs. Since people consider people more valuable than the health of the planet, we are stuck in our journey forward in time.

While nostalgia and going back to simpler times is a rewarding fantasy, it needs to be recognized as delusional. If science and technology are not able to provide more solutions, then going back to the farming practices of 7,000 years ago are not going to save us. The original question is "where is the proof that GMO is harmful to human beings?". The simple answer is that reverting to 7,000 year old organic farming provides historical data it isn't any kind of solution, and will not provide some better alternative for the future.

"This island Hawaii on this island Earth"
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
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quote:
Originally posted by pahoated

While nostalgia and going back to simpler times is a rewarding fantasy, it needs to be recognized as delusional. If science and technology are not able to provide more solutions, then going back to the farming practices of 7,000 years ago are not going to save us. The original question is "where is the proof that GMO is harmful to human beings?". The simple answer is that reverting to 7,000 year old organic farming provides historical data it isn't any kind of solution, and will not provide some better alternative for the future.



Covered the bases pretty well there... although I would have said "comforting" or "self-validating" fantasy rather than rewarding...

My question for the "GMO is evil" crowd: if organic farming is so healthy, how come the average life span 7000 years ago - when organic farming was the only thing available - was only about half of what it is now (and why is it increasing today) in the face of all this GMO consumption?
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