Sen Ruderman, where is the proof

[peteadams]

"Nowhere within the definition was a natural exposure to solar radiation considered an artificial act and is indeed a natural act."

Geochem was not referring to the sun, but rather to "mutation breeding," a type of mutagenic plant breeding which includes exposing seed to radiation or chemicals. According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation_breeding):

quote:

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From 1930–2007 more than 2540 mutagenic plant varietals have been released[1] that have been derived either as direct mutants (70%) or from their progeny (30%).[2] Crop plants account for 75% of released mutagenic species with the remaining 25% ornamentals or decorative plants.[3]

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Of course the sun also provides much radiation to the Earth as does the rest of the universe in the form of gamma ray and other particles, so over history any number of mutations, good and bad, have occurred to plants as the result of this universal radiation. On that basis one supposes then that Okole Puka would have to consider mutagenic breeding "natural" also.

One point that is often overlooked is the great precision and predictability of insertions of well-identified single genes by GE techniques versus the sheer randomness of traditional gene altering through pollination. If you want to produce many, many indifferent or inferior plant offspring in a quest to discover altered genes that produce a desirable plant, use traditional pollination techniques.

[Haaheo okole puka]

"from random natural or nuclear-induced genetic variations"
random natural is cosmic/solar radiation exposure and has been part of plant evolution for millions of years and not akin to the purposeful heavy nuclear bombardment within a lab and thus not comparative. Naturally occurring mutagens in a plant are not meticulously propagated to form a large scale mutagen colony, nature has built in protections against such natural small scale adversities. I would not exclude any such man-made mutagens from the GM label requirements as they are genetically modified as are GE foods... GM not to be confused solely with genetically engineered. GM labeling not GE labeling. GM covers all such genetic mutagens including chemically created mutagens.

II A - Practice leads to being well regulated (in an ideal state, properly functioning) and armed citizens provide security of a free state - thus the already existing natural right to keep and carry arms shall not be infringed.

[Obie]

"Somewhat controversially,several organic food and seed companies promote and sell certified organic products that were developed using both chemical and nuclear mutagenesis. Several certified organic brands, whose companies support strict labeling or outright bans on GMO-crops, market their use of branded wheat and other varietal strains which were derived from mutagenic processes without any reference to this genetic manipulation. These organic products range from mutagenic barley and wheat ingredient used in organic beers to mutagenic varieties of grapefruits sold directly to consumers as organic."

[Haaheo okole puka]

Obie,
That is precisely why some of these companies are also against GM labeling laws. They want to continue to hide behind the variant mutagen process and call it organic, etc. This is why "voluntary labeling" does not work. Mandatory GM labeling is the only way to flesh out the mutagens properly.


II A - Practice leads to being well regulated (in an ideal state, properly functioning) and armed citizens provide security of a free state - thus the already existing natural right to keep and carry arms shall not be infringed.

[Haaheo okole puka]

I'd also like to point out this. Some say, Gm foods have never killed anyone directly. The same could be said of cigarettes and trans fats and many other products before the many decades of research crushed those unsubstantiated notions. Unlike cigarettes and drugs, Genetic Mutagen colonies cannot be recalled, whence introduced to the natural plant colony they will forever imprint themselves into the environment, replicating over and over. In say 20 or 30 more years the slow machine of science definitively identifies direct links to human and environmental hazards, what then? We can't just pull it off the shelf and make the problem stop. You may have the unsubstantiated notion that GM foods are safe today but tomorrow you'll have very little ability to end what you began today.


II A - Practice leads to being well regulated (in an ideal state, properly functioning) and armed citizens provide security of a free state - thus the already existing natural right to keep and carry arms shall not be infringed.

[Hawnjigs]

HOP, exactly! And on a micro level, cancer may require a lifetime of systematic ingestion of causal substances or stress factors, and be similarly difficult if not impossible to revert back to healthy.

I was not aware of mutagenics(?)as a further extension of modified gene splicing, thank you.

Aloha aina, aloha kai

[Rob Tucker]

Just curious, how do you guys and gals sleep at night?

[Guest]

Rob, How do you mean to direction your question?. Who are you asking, a few or all?. I don't sleep its over-rated and sometimes nearly impossible(crying babies), I will get plenty of sleep when my mission here is over.

[Rob Tucker]

Well, some folks seem to be to be obsessively worrying about things they have little or no control over. Must lay awake at night staring at the ceiling and sweating.

[kalakoa]

...and that will be a problem long after they're dead...