Why? (lot sizes)

[Rob Tucker]

In my opinion, short of an elective overhaul at both the county and state level, it will take a lawsuit in Federal Court.

[Haaheo okole puka]

What does Puna need from the other districts? Nothing. I think Puna should break away and form a second County on the Big Island. We have our own income, power and water sources. If we're going to share it, it would then come with a price tag.

[kalakoa]

Kalakoa,

I was doing a cut and paste /quote of your post and accidentally deleted most of it. Sorry. My bad.

Rob

[Rob Tucker]

[quote] Kalakoa:
If the County is going to "opt out" of proper infrastructure, then it's only fair to allow those so afflicted to "opt out" of the building code.[quote]

On that basis it may be just as legitimate to "opt out" of paying some portion of one's property taxes. Cheating? No?

Assume the best and ask questions.

Punaweb moderator

[kalakoa]

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In my opinion, short of an elective overhaul at both the county and state level, it will take a lawsuit in Federal Court.

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Yes, because the one that brought us the CDPs has worked out so well...

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I think Puna should break away and form a second County on the Big Island.

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Four counties, along fairly obvious lines; problem is that politics will be a nightmare in the "poor" counties (always more vicious when there's less to fight over).

Alternately: allow the larger subdivisions to incorporate into townships, with all the rights and responsibilities thereof.

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I like it the way it is. Built my own independent infrastructure.

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Problem with "build your own" is that it remains technically illegal and subject to arbitrary "complaint-driven" enforcement, even if "it's always been like that".

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cheating ... is in the eye of the beholder.

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Individual lowering their tax burden: "cheater".

County redirecting your tax revenue: "strategic investment".

With an electric car and enough solar panels, I could "evade" my portion of the fuel tax revenue... which would be only fair, because I don't live in Kona where they spend that money.

[Haaheo okole puka]

The single county system worked here up until the 1960's. After that, as Rob pointed out, it became unbalanced with regard to the appropriation of funds. As an example, if one were to place the island of Hawaii over the top of any of the West Coast States, they'd see several counties are covered by this island. The span between the populated areas here is fairly big and an expectation to see equal distribution amongst those areas is fairly unreasonable as we have seen.
The property tax base is collected by the County as it is in many states. Thus to collect those revenues it needs to be accomplished as a County. Township typically derive their funding from other state implemented taxation revenues (for example Washington state townships received much of their funding from car tab revenues until that program was restrained by a local initiative, reducing a great deal of funding to those incorporated townships). At this time I don't think the State of Hawaii has a program to fund incorporated townships/cities, that's a whole new mess of measures to make townships happen in a State that has none.

At this point, I don't see a remedy to keep funding here in Puna unless we take control by measure of creating our own county. Then we can focus on our problems without interference from other districts interests. As per any fighting, that wouldn't be our concern. Our concern would be the future of Puna County.

[Haaheo okole puka]

When you look at the current county structure within the State from a population perspective it becomes readily apparent where the issue of financial unbalanced distribution comes in play on the Big Island. We have a current population of 185,000 people on this island with the predominate clusters in 3 separate districts. Hilo with 46,000 Puna with 45,400 and Kona with 37,900. This effectively creates a geographical split with regard to infrastructure investments and effectively opens the door to unbalanced distribution. THe rest of the islands will never experience this to the degree it occurs on the Big Island because their geographic application of the county model works as intended. Years ago, before we had the three way split of modern urban scale in infrastructure needs the single county model worked. Today with increased complexity of infrastructure needs it's abused and hence the reason for the introduction of Counties as to avoid such unequal financial and services distributions.

To go to court and challenge the funding is something that would continue to be an ongoing issue as the balance scale would continually be challenged and legal costs a major consumer of funds that would be best left to provide infrastructure. Hence the remedy is establishing counties that can maintain the necessary balance within their jurisdiction.

[Chunkster]

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Originally posted by Haaheo okole puka


At this point, I don't see a remedy to keep funding here in Puna unless we take control by measure of creating our own county.

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This is a non-starter in Hawaii. The powers that be in Honolulu are mortified by the prospect of devolving any of the power currently concentrated in the hands of the State and Counties. Measures of this sort never get anywhere in the Legislature.

[kalakoa]

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At this point, I don't see a remedy to keep funding here in Puna unless we take control by measure of creating our own county.

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Create an alternate currency system that keeps money in Puna.

Virtual County.

[Kapohocat]

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Originally posted by Midnight Rambler

HOP - you have no idea what you are talking about. The reason for the lots being the shape they are is that Hawaiian Acres, Orchidland, and similar subdivisions are zoned Ag-3, meaning the minimum lot size is 3 acres. They can't be subdivided beyond that without a zoning change, which is next to impossible. And when each lot must be at least 3 acres, as Carey and others said, the most efficient way to subdivide into lots that size is to make them as narrow as possible...

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They were not originally zoned Ag-3, hence the couple of clusters of postage stamps lots that came from a couple of lots that were subdivided before zoning changed.

And from someone else's post - does anyone know what it takes to make COH into two counties?