quote:
Originally posted by TomK
Well, there you have it. I would not support or vote for any politician where I had even the slightest suspicion that the nonsense of astrology would have some effect on their decision-making. Others may disagree of course.
I must ask - how do you feel about those who support Christianity?
Past, current and future candidates?
PS to Carol - Every major newspaper in America, including our very own HTH runs the Horoscope section everyday.
So - shall we ignore any candidate HTH endorses?
I would think you would have a much bigger issue with those current and any future candidate over their religious views and convictions over that of a "horoscope."
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Ken,
I don't think you read what I wrote, I was clarifying the difference between a "blog" and a "forum" because you were lumping the two together in an attempt to make a point. If you read what I said, I did say that I didn't care one way or the other about news organizations publishing horoscopes, and you completely misconstrued what I said.
If you are truly a supporter of Tiffany's I don't think your attacks on anyone who raises concerns about her fitness for office is going to help her any, because you are doing exactly what some people accuse Tiffany of. Politics is not for the thin skinned or faint of heart, once someone puts themselves into that public arena they will be criticized, and they will be judged by how they respond to that criticism. The more you misstate what people say, twist their words, and make personal attacks, the less support you will raise for "your" candidate.
I don't live in that counsel district, I will not be voting for or against any candidate in that race. I do want Puna to have 2 counselors who can and will work together to meet Puna's needs. I hope whoever is elected for both seats will be able to do that.
Carol
Carol
Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
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Although I dont agree with all the things said here, I applaud Ken sticking up for the candidate in he believes will be the best for District 5.
I also applaud the many others for speaking their mind civilly about District 5 candidates. (my district has much less discourse on the candidates so far. I would like to see more information on the other candidates for both Puna Districts but it is early in the season.)
Hometown elections always generate fevered discourse and we have months to go so I hope it remains civil.
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I supported Zendo first time around, but he's been a "no-show" since being elected. If you want to talk to him you have to try and catch him after a Council Meeting in Hilo or Kona. I know I haven't seen him in Puna in the last year.
Tiffany's here, approachable, and has Puna's interest at heart. Nobody's perfect, and I don't have to agree with her on ALL the issues; just most of them.
If you're not pissing someone off; You're completely ineffective.
Go Tiffany!
Very good post, Carol.
I think it is great to see what each person cares about in a candidate. For sure we will all have different values.
When I posted, I expressed my beliefs about her temperament and way of working with people, and some agree and some do not. It's all good.
Ken, I am not feeling emotional or attacked in a way that has me upset. I'm not complaining that you made a personal attack. While that is one of your habits, in this case you are attacking my character in an attempt to undermine and discredit my point, while you sidestep engaging with the actual substance.
If Tiffany can't handle criticism, then if you want to defend her, address that point. It will be no more or less true because of who said it. It's either true or it's not. Or it's true but it's not something that matters to you. And so forth with any traits under discussion here. If you can't engage with the actual points, then people who have trained in critical thinking will simply ignore what you have to say.
Having read the comments on use of astrology, I want to respond a little but don't want to go off on a big tangent.
My deal is this. Her astrologer is one of those who makes sweeping predictions. The kind TomK abhors. I told Tiffany that I felt the column was really bad astrology, and I told her why.
Tiffany replied that she thinks her astrologer is great. Tiffany doesn't know much if anything thing about astrology and so the "great" is purely that Tiffany likes what she says. Then later Tiffany mentioned that this astrologer is her personal astrologer, and I realized that it is all about Tiffany hearing what she wants to hear and liking it.
As TomK said, that is where astrologers can be like charlatans. They make people happy by figuring out what the people want to hear and giving it to them, what they want to hear about themselves, their journey, their future. Astrology as prediction is junk pseudo science.
Why does this bother me? It bothers me that Tiffany is so credulous, gullible, uncritical in her thinking in these areas.
To extrapolate that into public life, I can envision her responding to what comes her way purely on whether she likes what she hears, whether it appeals to her, whether it flatters her. She seems to lack the capacity to recognize flattery for what it is and put it aside and go after the truth.
She also picks and chooses relationships of all sorts based on whether people play up to her. This means she is really easy to manipulate, even though she doesn't think that she is. On the flip side, she is dismissive of people who talk sense to her but refuse to walk on eggshells around her, even though they probably have something worthwhile to bring to the table.
I told Tiffany flat out and directly that she allows herself to be swayed by flattery, so I'm not saying anything here that I was afraid to tell her.
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OK, quick response since it's getting really off topic, at least for me. Kathy, that was a classy response. I am, however, disturbed that Tiffany might have a "personal" astrologer. You don't really mean that do you? I hope not. That would be very troubling to me, that a potential politician might take advice from an astrologer. Let's hope that isn't true.
BTW, I also would even go as far as saying astrology is not a pseudo-science. It doesn't even make that grade and most pro-astrologers I've talked to (and there are many) don't claim any scientific validity to the subject themselves. They're in the business to make a buck or two.
Ken asked:
"I must ask - how do you feel about those who support Christianity? Past, current and future candidates?"
My answer would be that I don't have any time for politicians who exploit their religious beliefs, whether for political or financial reasons.
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I don't usually read BIC but went to see if I could find this "personal astrologer".
Tiffany has made her blog a clearing house for pseudo science! On just one page I saw posts about:
- yin and yang in regard to kidneys
- Chinese acupuncture
- chiropractic
Just what we need, another anti-science person in local government. Anyone know her stance on GM food?
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quote:
Originally posted by Kapohocat
Although I dont agree with all the things said here, I applaud Ken sticking up for the candidate in he believes will be the best for District 5.
I also applaud the many others for speaking their mind civilly about District 5 candidates. (my district has much less discourse on the candidates so far. I would like to see more information on the other candidates for both Puna Districts but it is early in the season.)
Hometown elections always generate fevered discourse and we have months to go so I hope it remains civil.
Well said, Kapohocat, mahalo. It is the season for character assassination and this is a perfect example of it here.
Ken, point taken (knowing Tiffany/knowing Mr. Tucker, etc.). Personal vendettas will arise with each candidate, not just Tiffany. The onus is upon us voters to weed out the crap, and deal with facts and candidate position on issues. Waiting for the same, and look forward to the candidate debate forums to come.
Carol said: "I do want Puna to have 2 counselors who can and will work together to meet Puna's needs. I hope whoever is elected for both seats will be able to do that." Ditto.
JMO.
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I am not seeing any "character assassination" here. I do see people expressing concerns about the temperament of a candidate, which is a legitimate issue. Serving your community in elected office requires a certain level of patience, willingness to listen to all sides, and ability to handle criticism. All the candidates are fair game for discussion as to their fitness for office, based on their temperament. Tiffany has been a far more public person, through her blog and other activities, than other candidates, but as the election draws closer I think we will see more of these discussions about those candidates too.
I meant it when I said that I thought Tiffany was fairly transparent, that what we see is what we would get. A more "political" person who was thinking of running for office wouldn't have run her blog the way she did at times, or taken some of the positions Tiffany did, so I still think her cards are usually all on the table.
Carol
Carol
Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
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