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Pros and cons for generators running on gas vs propane?
Personally, I like the idea of using my 25 gallon propane tank. Seems easier than toting a lot of gasoline around.
Comments/suggestions?
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Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times".
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The Champion gives you the option of both propane and gasoline that and the amount of wattage is why I like it. The electric start was just a bonus. When running it with gasoline you get more power than propane but typically, people have more propane around their home than gasoline and it stores longer than gasoline as well. Just my two cents worth...
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quote:
Originally posted by Andrew
Pros and cons for generators running on gas vs propane?
Personally, I like the idea of using my 25 gallon propane tank. Seems easier than toting a lot of gasoline around.
Comments/suggestions?
___________________________
The pro of using propane is that it does not go stale, as gasoline does when stored.
The con of propane is that you can't siphon fuel from your gas tank in a pinch. However, you can grab the bottle from your grill, hot water heater etc...
The pro of using gasoline is that it is readily available at the pump (barring the disaster you were preparing for.) Additionally, it can be scrounged from a multitude of places in an emergency.
The con to using gasoline is that it is perishable, even when fuel stabilizer has been added.
There may be more, however, these are the ones I have found in my experience.
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For some reason about 5 months ago I bought the dual-fuel, electric start,7500-9000 watt Champion (Chinese mfg.) at Costco. It ran everything from water pump + UV to sat tv to fridge to microwave for a week with no strain at all. I ran it for a few hours early in the day, again at mid-day, and again in the evening and was glad to have it for Iselle. I ran it all on propane which as has been said is easier to store and it's also much easier on the engine than gas. But I was glad to have the option in case one or the other was hard to get. It was all good really but it is real loud and uses about a small propane tank in 9-10 hours. The water pump takes the most starting power of my things but a different pump, maybe DC, would be easy add to the system and a smaller generator would still run most everything else. It was $600. on sale then and paid for itself in relief. If the grid were to be down for a month or more I would make other changes.
Jay
Jay
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I have a honda eu6500is hooked up to propane. It's hooked up to be used as a auto generator start for charging batteries on an outback solar system. It's been a complete pain in the ass! There's is not a mechanic that can work on it while it's running propane. Very unreliable when it tries to start when hooked up to propane. We tried everything... From adding a propane pump and several different regulators. The idea sounds great but believe me when I say you'll be happier running on gas. On a positive note Steve @ Steve's Honda in Hilo really was a big help but in the end after a ton of time and money, it's back to running on gas. It was very disappointing!
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Having spent about 30 years off the grid (20 of them in Kapoho), I've gone through a few generators. So, for what it's worth, here's my two cents on the topic.
If you live on the grid and expect to use a generator only for relatively short duration emergencies, go ahead and buy a 5000 watt to 7500 watt generator for under $1000. Just remember that there is only one upside to your purchase, and that is the price itself. (Well, if you buy the dual-fuel model from Costco, then I guess there is a second upside.)
If you expect that you may be cut off for a longer period and would need to use the generator every day for an extended period, I would suggest that the only generator to buy is a Honda.
Given the current uncertainty facing the community, it could be that a lot of people who are used to living on the grid may soon find themselves off the grid for who-knows-how-long. For people who live permanently off the grid, it's not such a difficult decision to lay out the big bucks for a good generator; but when someone doesn't really know how long they'll need the generator, the price definitely becomes a big issue.
There has been some talk about the relative merits of using either Propane or Gasoline to run a generator. I once owned an Onan generator that was converted to use Propane, and it was a beautiful machine; but Onans are expensive and there is no dealer or authorized service center in Hilo any longer. Propane is, no doubt, cleaner and will extend the life of the machine somewhat. It not only burns cleaner, but you don't have to get gas all over your hands when you fill the generator--plus it's easier to screw on the gas hose than it is to up end a heavy five gallon gas can every day.
However, I'd still choose a gasoline model because, over the years, we have faced several interruptions in propane deliveries to the Big Island--but never for gasoline. (I don't have any experience with the multi-fuel model that others have mentioned in this thread.) I've stored gas for many months without even adding a stabilizer to it, and I've never had any trouble with it going bad on me. With the addition of a stabilizer, it will definitely be good for many months; however if the need for your generator tails off, and you have unused gas sitting around for more than a month, you can always just dump it into your vehicle and fill your can with fresh gasoline.
If you choose to buy the cheaper Costco generator that runs on either fuel, then you have more flexibility. But if you choose to buy a Honda, then you would have to use gasoline (I'm not aware of any conversion kits available for Hondas). So here's why I would advise buying one of the Honda EU Series if you can afford it.
1. You can run a Honda for 18 hours a day, seven days a week for years without doing anything but changing the oil every couple of months. It's the Eveready bunny of generators.
2. Honda's have a two or three year, no-questions-asked warranty, and there is an authorized service center right in Hilo--Steve's Honda. And Steve is a great guy who charges very little for service or repair even after the generator is out of warranty. Plus any parts (spark plugs, air filters, etc.) you need are readily available from him at cheap prices.
3. Honda's are super quiet. You can park them right in your carport, and you will barely hear them. No need for you (or your neighbors) to put up with a noisy generator or to have to build a shed away from your house.
4. Honda's produce a pure sine wave electrical output that is not harmful to computers and other sensitive electronics. Most cheaper generators produce a modified sine wave current that is not commercial quality.
5. The inverter technology in Hondas produces a consistent electrical output with no surges or dropouts, and they run at a variable RPM depending on how much electrical draw is placed on them. That means, when you use less electricity, they automatically run quieter and use less gas.
6. All Hondas have a low oil cutoff switch, so you can never burn up your generator if the oil level drops too low.
7. Hondas also have a 12 volt output, so you can also charge deep cycle batteries directly from them if necessary.
8. You can connect two of the same size Hondas (1000's, 2000's, or 3000's) together to double the electrical output. So if you buy one and find that you need more output (watts), you can buy another one to double your output.
So, the bad news. The Honda EU1000 watt generator costs about $700. (Almost the same as the 7500 watt generator from Costco). It definitely cannot run a house or even most 120 Volt water pumps.
The Honda EU2000 watt costs about $1000 to $1200 and is still not enough to run a normal house that is designed to be on the grid. (Two together would put out 4000 watts but would cost nearly $2500. Maybe enough for a low use, on-the-grid house.)
The new EU7000 watt costs a whopping $4000 but is beefy enough to run a normal on-the-grid house with a 120 volt water pump, a refrigerator, and all the rest.
If the lava actually cuts off Highway 130 and it results in major electric outages, I'll post my suggestions on how an on-the-grid household could put together a small alternative electrical system (no solar panels) for about $2000. It would require swapping out the 120 volt water pump for a 12 volt pump and downsizing from a normal refrigerator to a minifridge, but it could for an extended period of time if necessary and would provide all the lights, T.V.s, computers, etc that people are used to.
Hopefully, the lava flow will peter out before it gets to the highway, and most of this thread will become irrelevant.
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quote:
Originally posted by terracore
Our catchment pump won't turn on with a 2,500 watt inverter (5,000 watt peak) but it does (barely) turn on with a 3500 watt generator.
I know, the real solution is a smaller catchment pump (I don't need a well pump, especially considering the tank is slightly uphill) but I enjoyed having the extra generator wattage during the Iselle outage.
p.s Costco in Kona has (or had) 7,000 watt (9,000 peak) "Champion" brand (Chinese) electric start dual-fuel generators (gas or propane) for $750. That's enough power for an entire house. (actual watts when used with propane are a bit lower than with gasoline)
Wait for it to go on sale. They have it for 150.00 off every couple of months. It is a quality machine and I only run it propane so far and the oil stay so much cleaner. More than enough power for most people. I recommend running off the 240V outlet / 60 amps with a transfer switch.
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quote:
Originally posted by Andrew
Pros and cons for generators running on gas vs propane?
Personally, I like the idea of using my 25 gallon propane tank. Seems easier than toting a lot of gasoline around.
Comments/suggestions?
__________________________
Yes the gas hose will not reach the top of the tank. You would need to get an extension to make it work. I get about 8 hrs or so on a 20# tank. A 100# tank will do for a long time.
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Joined: Nov 2011
quote:
Originally posted by wakan
Having spent about 30 years off the grid (20 of them in Kapoho), I've gone through a few generators. So, for what it's worth, here's my two cents on the topic.
If you live on the grid and expect to use a generator only for relatively short duration emergencies, go ahead and buy a 5000 watt to 7500 watt generator for under $1000. Just remember that there is only one upside to your purchase, and that is the price itself. (Well, if you buy the dual-fuel model from Costco, then I guess there is a second upside.)
If you expect that you may be cut off for a longer period and would need to use the generator every day for an extended period, I would suggest that the only generator to buy is a Honda.
Given the current uncertainty facing the community, it could be that a lot of people who are used to living on the grid may soon find themselves off the grid for who-knows-how-long. For people who live permanently off the grid, it's not such a difficult decision to lay out the big bucks for a good generator; but when someone doesn't really know how long they'll need the generator, the price definitely becomes a big issue.
There has been some talk about the relative merits of using either Propane or Gasoline to run a generator. I once owned an Onan generator that was converted to use Propane, and it was a beautiful machine; but Onans are expensive and there is no dealer or authorized service center in Hilo any longer. Propane is, no doubt, cleaner and will extend the life of the machine somewhat. It not only burns cleaner, but you don't have to get gas all over your hands when you fill the generator--plus it's easier to screw on the gas hose than it is to up end a heavy five gallon gas can every day.
However, I'd still choose a gasoline model because, over the years, we have faced several interruptions in propane deliveries to the Big Island--but never for gasoline. (I don't have any experience with the multi-fuel model that others have mentioned in this thread.) I've stored gas for many months without even adding a stabilizer to it, and I've never had any trouble with it going bad on me. With the addition of a stabilizer, it will definitely be good for many months; however if the need for your generator tails off, and you have unused gas sitting around for more than a month, you can always just dump it into your vehicle and fill your can with fresh gasoline.
If you choose to buy the cheaper Costco generator that runs on either fuel, then you have more flexibility. But if you choose to buy a Honda, then you would have to use gasoline (I'm not aware of any conversion kits available for Hondas). So here's why I would advise buying one of the Honda EU Series if you can afford it.
1. You can run a Honda for 18 hours a day, seven days a week for years without doing anything but changing the oil every couple of months. It's the Eveready bunny of generators.
2. Honda's have a two or three year, no-questions-asked warranty, and there is an authorized service center right in Hilo--Steve's Honda. And Steve is a great guy who charges very little for service or repair even after the generator is out of warranty. Plus any parts (spark plugs, air filters, etc.) you need are readily available from him at cheap prices.
3. Honda's are super quiet. You can park them right in your carport, and you will barely hear them. No need for you (or your neighbors) to put up with a noisy generator or to have to build a shed away from your house.
4. Honda's produce a pure sine wave electrical output that is not harmful to computers and other sensitive electronics. Most cheaper generators produce a modified sine wave current that is not commercial quality.
5. The inverter technology in Hondas produces a consistent electrical output with no surges or dropouts, and they run at a variable RPM depending on how much electrical draw is placed on them. That means, when you use less electricity, they automatically run quieter and use less gas.
6. All Hondas have a low oil cutoff switch, so you can never burn up your generator if the oil level drops too low.
7. Hondas also have a 12 volt output, so you can also charge deep cycle batteries directly from them if necessary.
8. You can connect two of the same size Hondas (1000's, 2000's, or 3000's) together to double the electrical output. So if you buy one and find that you need more output (watts), you can buy another one to double your output.
So, the bad news. The Honda EU1000 watt generator costs about $700. (Almost the same as the 7500 watt generator from Costco). It definitely cannot run a house or even most 120 Volt water pumps.
The Honda EU2000 watt costs about $1000 to $1200 and is still not enough to run a normal house that is designed to be on the grid. (Two together would put out 4000 watts but would cost nearly $2500. Maybe enough for a low use, on-the-grid house.)
The new EU7000 watt costs a whopping $4000 but is beefy enough to run a normal on-the-grid house with a 120 volt water pump, a refrigerator, and all the rest.
If the lava actually cuts off Highway 130 and it results in major electric outages, I'll post my suggestions on how an on-the-grid household could put together a small alternative electrical system (no solar panels) for about $2000. It would require swapping out the 120 volt water pump for a 12 volt pump and downsizing from a normal refrigerator to a minifridge, but it could for an extended period of time if necessary and would provide all the lights, T.V.s, computers, etc that people are used to.
Hopefully, the lava flow will peter out before it gets to the highway, and most of this thread will become irrelevant.
Great thoughts....I actually have 3 generators. I started out with a 90.00 harbor freight 2 stroke 900W model. It came new in the box with a 1/2 tank of gas. Weird! Anyways I ran it for a week 24/7 running out chest freezer and TV and Sat dish and some lights ect. without issue. It will run for about 9 hrs on a 1.25 gallon tank... but it will not run the fridge....
Then I got a 1500W buaffalo tool model on sale for 200-something a couple of years ago and after iselle I ran it for a week straight only shutting it off to change oil. It does seems to get a vapor lock at night when the air cools off.... after research it seems this is a big issue with gas generators as the tank needs to be vented better and most are not. A loose gas cap and it runs through the night without issue.
I got the 7000/9000W dual fuel costco model. It will run anything I need it to in the house and my welder as well. Downside, it is friggen loud.
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Here are the honda propane conversion kits on Amazon. I'm sure they are available elsewhere too....
As I said in my post before, worked great for about the first 2 years but has become very unreliable during cold starts. Automatic choke doesn't work well or is not designed for a cold propane start up... Steve's honda replaced the choke assembly and electronic choke servo.
Honda Propane Conversion Kits:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_box...conversion
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