Imagine, if you will, a young educated Hilo Native Hawaiian Scientist being the first to potentially discover life outside this planet in say 20, 30, 50 years from now.
With TMT that becomes much more of a possible reality.
Without TMT, I guess Hilo and Hawaii can be proud of its baseball player who helped win a playoff game.
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Opihikao,
Occasionally I wish I hadn't started this thread, and I agree with Pete that your response was entirely appropriate. I understand why you might have wanted to take a shower after reading one or two comments here. However:
"Just so you know, the protestors were told "the guests" wanted to go to the bathroom. Some went to the bathroom, but used the excuse to walk up to the blessing area. This was perceived as deceitful to the protestors. There is the truth on this particular issue."
I am curious where you heard this. Not doubting you at all but this is news to me. I can't speak for all observatory staff, but I know we have been told that if we ever come across a situation like this (e.g., a road block by protesters) then we do not try to go through or bypass it and instead turn around while saying nothing impolite or provocative. Given this, I am surprised to hear some may have tried to circumnavigate the road block but suspect that 1) they weren't observatory personnel (I truly hope not) and 2) maybe I am misunderstanding your use of "the guests". There were many people visiting from around the world, and if "the guests" refers to them, then I hope they can be forgiven because they should have been given a proper briefing on what to do if such a protest happened.
If you want to answer but prefer not do so so publicly, please feel free to email me via Punaweb.
Best regards.
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quote:
Originally posted by DiscussTruth
http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/news/loc...-t-planned
Clipped from above:
"A recording of the groundbreaking showed him berating attendees for walking past the protest, saying they “slithered in like slimy snakes.” He also called them infidels."
Can we now expect "beheadings" in the name of some fake, made up "god?"
This was my favorite part...
quote:
While the ceremony was invitation-only, Mangauil said protesters felt the restriction on the road was illegal and expressed their opposition by creating their own blockade below the fork.
“That’s when we ended up sitting there,” he said. “We just parked right there.”
Blocking the road is illegal! So we will protest it by blocking the road!
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Aloha, Mr. Tom, and Mr. Adams, mahalo for your understanding.
As to your question, Mr. Tom, several of my ohana were there, and related various views/opinions on what happened and how they felt. Not all of my ohana were protestors, some are in favor of this project.
Here is one video (many are available from different angles) which is concise, but shows the basics of the events that transpired. Specific to your question, fast forward to 15:00, as Lanakila (the young man in kapa) explains the story:
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2014/1...oad-block/
Written media is propaganda, where the videos show us first hand what transpires in these kinds of situations. Sensationalism can be removed somewhat in video, which allows us to form our own opinions.
In the positive, there is a man, a "guest" from another country, (also in the video above) who explains to the protestors he understands and respects Mauna Kea, and was extremely humble. This situation (protesting) cannot be new to investors, especially with a project of this magnitude. Perhaps that is why the blessing was done prior to the planned event.
I hope the guests were prepared for this in the manner you shared. At the end of the day, there is still a lot of work to do, both in building the telescope and healing this community. Hopefully common sense and common ground will be reached.
Mahalo again. Have a lovely evening.
JMO.
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Thank you, opihikao. I'll have a look at the video in the coming days (I'm busy packing for my trip to see Pam, but, as usual, looking for any excuse to procrastinate!) and agree that watching the video is better than reading a news article. I'm told looking at the "raw" video is better than watching the edited version, but have yet to visit that web page, so am not sure what I'll see. I've been hearing things about behaviour from both groups, and one rumour I've heard is very disturbing to me (it's not about the protesters). But it is a rumour at this stage and hope it turns out not to be true.
Tomorrow morning I will be meeting with someone who was there, someone I trust, so hope to learn a lot then. In the meantime, all the best while Pam and I spend some much needed time together!
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I think the ancient Hawaiians with there love of the stars would approve. They were quick to pick up on modern technology. It did bring about uniting the Islands.[8D]
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Mauna Kea is a sacred mountain to many people here and continued desecration is just a constant reminder that they are a conquered people. Not all native Hawaiians see things the same but people with strong convictions deserve respect to own their thoughts and beliefs. This does not mean the TMT should or will be killed, but there is no reason to insult other peoples' cultures, particularly when they are hosting occupation by other cultures.
Just for a moment assume that there were some sort of technologically advanced project that would bring money and high paying jobs to some site that is sacred or religiously significant to YOU, but would require desecration of your belief system. What if a project like the Hadron Supercollider came to the US of A but they had to excavate Arlington cemetery to build it there because of geographic concerns?
Think any military families would be concerned? Would you dismiss their concerns as just being ignorant supporters of an antiquated warrior culture?
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All,
I'm off to see Pam shortly and will likely not post here again for a couple of weeks. I will, however, try and get Pam to post something. She's had a bit of trouble logging in but has been reading this thread and a couple of others. She sends everyone here her best wishes.
I'm very troubled about one or two things when it comes to the TMT and much of it has been expressed in this thread. An awful lot of work, effort and money has been spent on making the TMT happen on Mauna Kea, and frankly, I am surprised the project is still here. Other places on the planet would welcome such a project especially given all the benefits and money it will bring. Despite that, the TMT has chosen to be here and just about everyone I have talked to agrees this is a good thing for the island.
Despite all the efforts from both sides to reach a compromise, I was horrified to see a comment here and in the Trib about beheading.
That violent and atrocious behaviour is not something the observatories think anyone here would do. It is an insult from someone who is not connected with the observatories but of course is allowed to say whatever they want. I just want to make it clear that person does not represent the thoughts or opinions of anyone working at the observatories.
I am concerned after all the work everyone on both sides has put in that comments like those will destroy everything we've all worked towards.
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the TMT has chosen to be here and just about everyone I have talked to agrees this is a good thing for the island.
Still, a man hears what he wants to hear. And disregards the rest... even a scientist.. sheesh probably more so a scientist!
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quote:
Originally posted by steve1
Mauna Kea is a sacred mountain to many people here and continued desecration is just a constant reminder that they are a conquered people. Not all native Hawaiians see things the same but people with strong convictions deserve respect to own their thoughts and beliefs. This does not mean the TMT should or will be killed, but there is no reason to insult other peoples' cultures, particularly when they are hosting occupation by other cultures.
Just for a moment assume that there were some sort of technologically advanced project that would bring money and high paying jobs to some site that is sacred or religiously significant to YOU, but would require desecration of your belief system. What if a project like the Hadron Supercollider came to the US of A but they had to excavate Arlington cemetery to build it there because of geographic concerns?
Think any military families would be concerned? Would you dismiss their concerns as just being ignorant supporters of an antiquated warrior culture?
Oh please! Native Hawaiians enjoy more rights and freedoms then anytime in their history. I would love to see what would have happen if the protestors did this during Kamehameha's reign, there would be several less protestors.
Not only do Native Hawaiians get cultural and religious freedom (something they never had in the Kingdom of Hawaii), they get to selectively disregard rules and laws that the rest of the state have to follow.
Where were the protestors when the roads were built? or the first couple telescopes built. This cultural revival appears to be more recent and more militant.
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