Puna Geothermal Fined for Violation

[RJHampton]

The Iceland plant isn't pumping magma out of the ground and they wouldn't be doing so here, either.-leilanidude




Enhanced Geothermal system (EGS) is what PGV uses presently, I never used the word "pumping". Our laws only cover EGS. I have checked and they have not amended the language yet. If they plan to go for a MAGMA enhanced geothermal system they will have to change the language.

The described process of ESG is to create a well and inject water and chemical substances into it to make energy. That is why it is called "enhanced". It is not just water. They use this "brine" of water and chemicals, over and over again, storing it in the ponds for future use. That is why they have these ponds in the back. Everyone has seen the ponds, haven't they?

So I ask you today, why would Ormat want to continue to use EGS if they have the opportunity to develop a magma enhanced geothermal system? It would offer so many financial incentives especially when there is already one up and running in Iceland that just came on board in 2015. Why wouldn't Ormat eventually ask to do the same thing esp. when it is more economical to use magma as the heat source instead of rocks?

Yet they are going to have to ask to amend the language of the law in order to this. This will take lawyers and legislators. Hence the choice of our new attorney general. []

Throwing anything on magma is scientifically and spiritually a no no in my book. It is like opening up the Pandora's box and a profound disrespect to Madame PELE.

Edited for punctuation

[Punatic007]

quote:

---

Originally posted by leilanidude

quote:

---

Originally posted by Punatic007

What is this....the geothermal employee chat room? Who else promotes heavy industry in the middle of a residential area?

---

The land is zoned AG, and I am not "promoting" geothermal although I prefer it to this island's continuous use of oil which brings an extreme danger to our coastlines. When you build near an airport, do you also complain about the noise?

* Cue up kalakoa for insight on why your argument just doesn't hold up. []

---

It's residential ag zoning. .5 and one acre lots in Leilani. .25 acre lots in other subdivisions within one mile.

What's in it for you? Do you enjoy the fact that it is poisoning the neighbors and running them out of their homes? Some folk are that bad so tell us what's in it for you? Paycheck or royalty? Apparently lots of supposed Hawaiian decent folk get royalties at the expense of harming others.

[PunaMauka2]

"Throwing anything on magma is scientifically and spiritually a no no in my book. It is like opening up the Pandora's box and a profound disrespect to Madame PELE."


...and we know what happens when the gods are disrespected. humans start sacrificing each other and stuff. no good.

[PaulW]

"Was the discovery of uranium good for the planet?
Was splitting the atom a good idea."

Yes and yes. Any more questions?

Sorry, we can't return to the Dark Ages.

[leilanidude]

Do you enjoy the fact that it is poisoning the neighbors and running them out of their homes? Some folk are that bad so tell us what's in it for you?

The geothermal plant is not poisoning anyone. The natural environment on the East Rift may very well be poisoning people though. Why are the employees of the plant not sick and dying? None of the anti-geo folks can ever answer this question.

[Guest]

Leilanidude thank you for posting a reasonable question like why don't the working crew at Puna's geothermal plant get sick or die? Of course my answer would only be a guess and also my opinion. See most hired at the geothermal plant are men, prime healthy men from other locations between the ages of 25-50. Most of these men hired work at geothermal less than 5 years and rarely invest back into one of the cheapest buying areas in hawaii, Puna. Most of the leaking gas or exposure from geothermal comes between the hours of 1:00 A.m and 6:00 a.m maybe temp or weather changes the air composition at these times. They ( geothermal) also have just used these times to dump their waste. Could be special written contracts for folks who get hired to work for such highly experimental projects. For example if one who gets hired by Puna's Ormat and develops cancer get 6 figure settlements, call it good life insurance. Just my opinion.

[HiloPuna]

Punatic007
"Good find. Amazing the amount of corruption involving PGV. More fines and a permanent shut down hopefully."
"What is this....the geothermal employee chat room? Who else promotes heavy industry in the middle of a residential area?" ......then....
"What's in it for you? Do you enjoy the fact that it is poisoning the neighbors and running them out of their homes? Some folk are that bad so tell us what's in it for you? Paycheck or royalty? Apparently lots of supposed Hawaiian decent folk get royalties at the expense of harming others."

Easy on the 'ad hominem' attacks. For the most part this has been a pretty good thread with lots of fact-based give and take. A big mahalo to geochem and ironyak for an informative process. They seem to disagree but are not disagreeable about it. Now the threads future is at risk with the recent additions (?) of mythology (Pandora and Pele), a red herring (magma), and what seems like a fear you have that somebody has been out to get you.

[Lodestone]

quote:

---

Originally posted by gypsy69

See most hired at the geothermal plant are men, prime healthy men from other locations between the ages of 25-50.

---

Right. I spent a couple of decades in the nuclear power industry, and us employees of said power plants were healthier than the general public BUT... same confound applied: we were generally in the prime of life, making decent money, not on drugs (well, mostly), and had good medical insurance and regular checkups. So, while I'd like to think our exposure levels had no harmful effects, I cannot be sure.

[ironyak]

Originally posted by HiloPuna
Easy on the 'ad hominem' attacks. For the most part this has been a pretty good thread with lots of fact-based give and take. A big mahalo to geochem and ironyak for an informative process. They seem to disagree but are not disagreeable about it. Now the threads future is at risk with the recent additions

To be clear, geochem and I do largely disagree so far. If he would post some links to his sources, it might make it easier to identify where those disagreements arise from.

Trying to return to an informative process about PGV fines...

[ironyak]

ironyak - For the Iselle event, Puna Pono Alliance gathered feedback from residents who complained of health effects and created a map seen at the bottom of this page. More official sources for this, or other, PGV incidents are of interest.
http://punapono.com/2015/index.php/ts-iselle

PunaMauka2 - i find it difficult to have confidence in this link as a reliable data collection source. and it's not difficult to imagine the data collection could easily be tainted by a number of errors in a controlled accurate intake of data.

Agreed, and I hesitated to even post this link. However, the state Dept of Health was quick to dismiss outright any possibility of health effects from the Aug 7th release. Without the official agency exercising their responsibility and gathering data, can you think of other sources of more reliable information?

Aug 21 2014 - http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/news/loc...rmal-fears
Aug 24 2014 - http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/news/loc...e-doh-says
Aug 30 2014 - http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2014/0...lease/#doh

Originally posted by leilanidude
It is telling that people who were both downwind and upwind during the event, reported similar symptoms. How could this be?

I'm guessing you're mostly referring to the blue dots to the north in Nanawale? First of all, it's not my map so can't answer directly how it could be. From the limited data I have seen, wind speeds during Iselle actually dropped between 7pm and 8pm, before ramping up to ~70mph at 11pm.

Perhaps there is the possibility of pooling for H2S which is heavier than air? The wind directions may also have been variable for ~7:30pm - 10pm during the release? Also, health problems and fatalities from H2S tend to happen in confined spaces, so having to shelter in place during the storm may have played a role?

http://www.ivhhn.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83#Volcanic%20Examples%20and%20Incidents
"Rotorua, New Zealand: Chronic exposure to the gas [H2S] has been associated with adverse health effects, including neurological, cardiovascular and respiratory effects, and several deaths have been associated with acute exposures to high concentrations that had accumulated in confined spaces (Bates et al., 2002)."

Anyone with definitive wind data for Aug 7 2014, 7pm - 11pm for Leilani Estates, could help address these questions and possibilities. Independent H2S readings, possibly gathered by first responders or residents, would also provide insight.