Geothermal - Health Assessments & Studies

[ironyak]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3594811/
Associations of Ambient Hydrogen Sulfide Exposure with Self-Reported Asthma and Asthma Symptoms

Background info:
"Rotorua city, in the North Island of New Zealand, sits on an active geothermal field"
"Vents emitting H2S are located in and around the city"
Ambient H2S levels were recorded by ~50 monitors over two different 2 week periods, and were mapped showing ranges from 2.1 ppb to 63.9 ppb
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...figure/F1/
"Participants were 1637 men and women, aged 18-65, resident in Rotorua for at least 3 years."

General study limitations noted:
"Information bias, particularly with estimates of H2S exposure levels." No direct monitoring for an individual's exposure to H2S
"Assumptions about the relative amounts of time people spent both at home and at work". Times of high and lower exposure not specifically tracked for each individual.
"self-reported doctor-diagnosed asthma and asthmatic symptoms" such as:
- wheezing or whistling in the chest
- woken with coughing, shortness of breath, or a feeling of tightness in the chest

Discussion:
"Our study has found no evidence that H2S exposure at levels found in Rotorua is a risk factor for asthma or asthma symptoms."

This mirrors the findings from the 1984 health survey done in Leilani Estates, with asthma complaints being reported in low numbers.
http://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/handle/10524/23505

Will be informative to see what the new health studies find for the the prevalence of asthma issues in the PGV or wider ERZ area.

"Irrespective of the relationship between H2S and asthma, there are other potential health outcomes from hydrogen sulfide exposure, including possible neurologic and neuropsychologic effects (Kilburn et al., 2010) and effects on the eye, particularly cataract (Bates et al., 2002)"

"A previous study in Rotorua, which involved analysis of hospital discharge data, reported evidence of increasing respiratory disease risk with residence in higher H2S exposure areas (Bates et al., 2002)"

Given Bates has been studying H2S exposure in Rotorua for over a decade, there are many more health effects to consider once we are done with asthma.

Thoughts?

[TomK]

Every so often, when geothermal energy is discussed here, I see the name Harry Kim. Is there any reason to use his name in the discussion? He was the head of the Hawaii Island civil defense, a management position, and the mayor, a politician.

What qualifications does he posses the would mean he should be considered an expert on geothermal energy?

[ironyak]

Morning Tom. Harry Kim might be a bit off topic here. Any thoughts on reposting this question in the night time drilling ban thread as he just testified about that? Or perhaps even a new thread given the differences in opinion about his legacy on geothermal?
Cheers

[TomK]

Why didn't you ask Punatic007 that question or yourself? I wasn't the one who brought up Kim in this thread, and was simply asking. I'd like to know what his qualifications are regarding geothermal energy. It's not a hard question.

[ironyak]

I was offline when Punatic007 brought him up, but online when you posted. I also noted that much of it was slightly off topic, but am willing to discuss the points raised regardless.

A thread for Harry Kim's Geothermal Legacy was just a suggestion, not a demand, and will even add my 2 cents or more later. In the meantime you can read or hear some of the history as told by the Head of Civil Defense and Mayor during the establishment and growth of local geothermal regarding the emergency responses, legal wranglings, and community contention.

The night shift is yours. Cheers
http://www.punaweb.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20454&whichpage=5

[TomK]

Does it include his qualifications on geothermal energy?

Sorry, ironyak, both you and pahoated have destroyed my bull**** meter tonight. It was a complicated model that detected double standards, hypocrisy, complete nonsense and fruitcakes. It went off the scale earlier this evening.

[geochem]

TomK - to respond directly to your question, Harry Kim has zero qualifications to comment on geothermal technology or health effects - like any politician, that doesn't slow him down any.

ironhak: I would ditto TomK's comments regarding overloading the BS meter with your recent post on the Bates' studies. Bates' 2002 publication was based on a much narrower cohort with far fewer data than the later study - so you choose to use the earlier, less robust study because it backs your prejudice and ignore the better study that was published more recently. The recent Bates study was an epi study looking at long term exposure in a large population - are you saying that they were supposed to equip everyone in the study with personal H2S monitors for thirty years? Complete BS. You use Kilburn's study to trot out neurological effects with Kilburn being a professional expert witness in litigation cases - honored with a listing on the quackwatch website for his lunatic theories. And choose to ignore the companion to the Bates study done by Reed that thoroughly discredits Kilburn's nonsense.

The health claims regarding H2S exposure in the community are a fraud - you are simply trying to perpetuate that fraud.

[ironyak]

Hi geochem. Everything I quoted is from the 2013 Bates Study as I consider this the topic of discussion. Quotes regarding the limitations involved or references to his other studies are from the author, not me.

My comments are an attempt to provide a quick explanation for those that may not want to read the whole study. If you feel I have made a mistake please provide a clarification.

Agreed that it is a very strong study focused on H2S and asthma and am not dismissing or discounting its findings in anyway.

I am open to more discussion, however I find the personal slurs from you and TomK petty tactics beneath scientists of your standing. I would hope we can discuss this material in a clear and civil manner.

[opihikao]

Difficult to discuss this issue rationally when so much BS has been flung around for decades. To date, there has been no exact proof of health issues caused by the geothermal plant. None.

In fact, our ohana has lived in the area for generations, and not one has complained about health issues from the plant, nor has any of them been on the Plaintiff list, nor "paid off" by ORMAT/PGV.

It is probably more frustrating to a scientist (than a layperson like myself) to see BS continue. Scientists call BS what it is. Immediately, if not sooner. Keeps facts in check, and BS out.

JMO.

[Guest]

Opihikao, mahalo for your passion and concerns. You speak the truth about yours and your ohanas experience living as a neighbor to geothermal. Yet others including some of my ohana have felt different effects caused by geothermal, some still lasting. Maybe some are more sensitive maybe some have been exposed differently.
The state and county planned to explore or experiment with the idea of geothermal and residential living on an active rift zone. Both are still experiments if you ask me but both should not be over the top of the other. Geothermal waste or releases should not be going over neighborhoods of keiki and catchment tanks. Homes should also not be built up against industrial drilling operations.
When we bought here in 99 we had no idea geothermal was going to grow and need to have continuous operations, or would be here Forever. Had no idea our home values or children's health could or would be impacted or influenced so greatly. Personally I would like to see more geothermal also just not ran or operated the same way this plant has been operating. This plant is like the haunted house at the end of some dark and deserted street. JMO.
Also just my opinion but they should close this current plant, convert it to a visitors center and museum. Move the plant or open a new one up above brysons cinders, maybe a mile or two above so to not affect residents, to be closer to the source, and to be up wind from most. Why did geothermal not by out all of leilani back in the 60's or 70's to avoid such a mess?
Why did the county and state not protect or form the proper health and environmental studies during the duration of the experimental drilling? Why don't we have an inter-island ferry since their are no facts to prove its dangerous or impacting anything?