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I am on the road about that time every morning here on the East side (where the sun doesn't have to get past Mauna Loa), and I can state for a fact there is no way the sun is in anyone's eyes at that time, this time of the year. Right now it is 6 AM and pitch dark, by 6:15 there is a little light, but official sunrise is 6:39 this morning. If the accident was called in right away it would have been 6:20 at the latest, and probably overcast as well, with the weather we are having.
I think the police need to bring in an outside agency to investigate this, because the statements they've already made seriously undermine any faith in an impartial investigation. The operator of a vehicle is supposed to have their vehicle under control and be aware of their surroundings, to hit someone from behind while ascending that steep hill requires a pretty high level of inattention.
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Shockwaverider,
Why not leave the assumptions alone and leave it to the legal system?
By using your form of reasoning that a driver should be aware of their surroundings. A jurisdiction should be just as aware of the dangers when mixing cyclist with automobiles and a cyclist just as aware of what's behind and around them. Trying to establish blame is a double edge sword, for every rational argument you can muster an opposing rational argument can be raised.
When it boils right down to it, automobiles and cyclist don't mix on high speed roadways and there's no getting around it. You can argue it till the cows come home but you cannot change the human factor or the laws of physics. Ultimately it boils down to personal choices and chance. The only person who was there still alive is the police officer, so what's that tell you about the law of physics and where one should place their choice and rely upon chance? You can't mix hydrogen and oxygen together in a clear container in the sun and expect it not to combine. It's unavoidable under the circumstances. Sad but true (ACCIDENTS happen).
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They should change the law to allow cyclists to travel "against" traffic on roadways. When I jog.. I always run against traffic so I can see whats coming and have the ability to get out of the way if someone is driving recklessly. And I also drive my bike opposite traffic on paved roads in my private subdivision because there is no shoulder. Better safe than sorry!
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Bike lanes, we need more bike lanes on the island.
Per last nights' HNN, a local cycling group has been demanding this for quite some time, pointing out that "it's a County Road, so a 4-foot shoulder is required by County Code".
That four feet would have made all the difference... I hope the next-of-kin sues.
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quote:
Originally posted by Wao nahele kane
Shockwaverider,
Why not leave the assumptions alone and leave it to the legal system?
By using your form of reasoning that a driver should be aware of their surroundings. A jurisdiction should be just as aware of the dangers when mixing cyclist with automobiles and a cyclist just as aware of what's behind and around them. Trying to establish blame is a double edge sword, for every rational argument you can muster an opposing rational argument can be raised.
When it boils right down to it, automobiles and cyclist don't mix on high speed roadways and there's no getting around it. You can argue it till the cows come home but you cannot change the human factor or the laws of physics. Ultimately it boils down to personal choices and chance. The only person who was there still alive is the police officer, so what's that tell you about the law of physics and where one should place their choice and rely upon chance? You can't mix hydrogen and oxygen together in a clear container in the sun and expect it not to combine. It's unavoidable under the circumstances. Sad but true (ACCIDENTS happen).
Cyclists and automobiles do coexist many times and many places, and bicycles are a legal form of transportation allowed on that roadway. This was not an inevitable chemical reaction, and the police chief (or the officer) making up a story about sun in the eyes when sunrise is at 6:39 just raises suspicions that a cover up is underway.
When a vehicle strikes another vehicle from behind it is a rear end collision, which is almost always ruled to be the fault of the vehicle that did the rear ending. The way it was explained to me by a long time police officer is that the driver is supposed to always be aware of what is in front of him and should be able to stop if needed. Thus, maintaining a safe stopping distance on a high speed freeway is the responsibility of the driver, and going up hill on that stretch of road is not a "high speed roadway" by any stretch of the imagination. This is a twisty two lane road, not a freeway.
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Kalakoa,
Though a 4' shoulder would be of benefit and would be better than nothing as is the case now. There will still be moments when cars or bicycles cross the white line and collide due to the human factor. I guess I'm simply stating that may reduce such unfortunate events but not eliminate them. I'm for a fully separate bike lane and tabs on the bikes to use them. Tabs can pay for the detached bike lanes and they can ride in what ever direction they want then. Where a car lane and bike lane get closer than say 10', a concrete barrier should be established to protect cyclist from vehicles either intentionally or unintentionally using the emergency shoulder.
Road shoulders were originally designed for emergency road exits and very often are needed, using them for bikes is still highly problematic. I'd just like to see some common rational sense be applied to the situation instead of the current irrational expectations made of auto drivers and cyclists. Everyone here has looked off the road for moment and in that moment conditions could have placed a cyclist in front of us. That's not something anyone here is prepared to deal with emotionally but it can happen because we allow it to needlessly continue as a possibility and fail to demand it be changed. Every time I hear of these accidents it saddens me and pisses me off to no end in the same moment. We alone are the orchestrators of these needless accidents.
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Though a 4' shoulder would be of benefit and would be better than nothing as is the case now.
Better than killing a tourist? Absolutely.
fully separate bike lane and tabs on the bikes to use them
Where does the "mandatory" bicycle registration fee go now? (Joking.)
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"This was not an inevitable chemical reaction, and the police chief (or the officer) making up a story about sun in the eyes when sunrise is at 6:39 just raises suspicions that a cover up is underway."
I don't see anywhere in any of the news reports were the officer reported the sun was in his eyes.It was actually a Fire Dept battalion chief and it was speculation.
Acting Battalion Chief Capt. John Whitman says that area is very treacherous for bike riders, especially during sunrise.
"It's kinda dangerous for a bicyclist to be riding in that area, being the sun rising and such, hard to see them. And there's no shoulder for those bicyclists to be riding on. They basically have to ride on the road, which is a pretty dangerous area," said Capt. Whitman.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/28232...n-waikoloa
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Even though cyclists have the legal right of way, if the road is of questionable safety they don't have to bike there.
Like a smelly community center, you might have the right to use the facility, but if it stinks and you don't go there, it's a short term solution to the problem.
That said, it is a public road and if the cyclist was in his lane, it's a tragic accident.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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"It's kinda dangerous for a bicyclist to be riding in that area, being the sun rising and such, hard to see them. And there's no shoulder for those bicyclists to be riding on. They basically have to ride on the road, which is a pretty dangerous area," said Capt. Whitman.
Because our officers are not fully trained on how to operate a motor vehicle? What?
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