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quote:
Originally posted by dakine
it is 2015 after all. a degree of lifestyle differences amongst various families and individuals, yes, but let us not get romantically carried away in perceiving the mystery of the exotic "other" living in the here and now..
PW Concept of the Day.
Lack of Empathy: The Most Telling Narcissistic Trait
"Narcissists do not consider the pain they inflict on others; nor do they give any credence to others' perceptions," says Dr. Les Carter in the book Enough of You, Let's Talk About Me (p. 9). "They simply do not care about thoughts and feelings that conflict with their own." Do not expect them to listen, validate, understand, or support you.
more at: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sto...stic-trait
Dakine, sorry hun but you are literally off base on this one. It's not about opinions it's about facts, facts that are going right over your head. I'm not kidding, the kings of Hawaii were all about astronomy. You need to look at the fact that you seriously brainwashed. A lot of people are in this regard, it's politically correct and fashionable now to be an apologist. But don't let it take you into never never la-la land of thinking the past can be rewritten and recreated by a bunch of losers who want to blame everyone because they have no direction. Oh poor me them fvckin haoles done take my land. Snap snap Dakine, wake up!
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The Hawaiian culture is about astronomy, and resource management, and agriculture, and navigation. What they're not about, especially since the cultural renaissance; is having their culture continue to be both exploited and marginalized by others.
You people that claim the movement is "anti-science" are barking up the wrong tree. They should be major players in the control of their land, culture, and the use of their Trust held lands. They are not. This Billion dollar project is being crammed down their throats and the players think throwing peanuts at them is going to appease them.
Sorry, not anymore. I stand in awe of the motivation, dedication, and perseverance of the demonstrators. This ain't going away folks, and will continue until some major concessions are made by the State/University.
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Originally posted by PunaMauka2
it is 2015 after all. a degree of lifestyle different amongst various families and individuals, yes, but let us not get romantically carried away in perceiving the mystery of the exotic "other" living in the here and now.
And yet given all these commonalities, many disagreements and misunderstandings still abound. Why?
In my experience, it is challenging enough to reach a thorough understanding even between people with common backgrounds and good will. Human experience and perspective is just too varied to generalize or presume to know.
As my education and occupation are in the sciences, I deeply appreciate the power of science to increase our understanding and ability to address some of life's challenges. However, I was also born and raised at the edge of the Rocky Mountains, and have climbed my share of 14k foot peaks to look out over miles of unchanged wilderness. Not having a clear sense of the meaning, I would not use the word sacred to describe those spaces or experiences, but they are awe-inspiring, perspective changing, and worth protecting. For me there is no easy answer to reconciling these competing values as applied to Mauna Kea.
No doubt others, given their own backgrounds and reasonings, may have complex and nuanced views and should be allowed to speak for themselves. No need for anyone to be an "exotic other" to have very different and often insightful beliefs.
As I've noted, there is plenty about this movement that is baffling or bothersome; the reaction to it is even more odd and disturbing IMO. But for everyone's sake it probably most productive to adopt the stance of the host culture here: assume the best, and ask questions. 
PS Thanks for explaining your thoughts with more depth and fewer debate tactics. Makes it easier to understand and appreciate your perspective.
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Originally posted by snorkle
This ain't going away folks, and will continue until some major concessions are made by the State/University.
Any thoughts on what some of these concessions might be?
http://hilo.hawaii.edu/news/stories/2015...t-uh-hilo/
UH Board of Regents to hold special meeting at UH Hilo to discuss Maunakea
The special BOR meeting is being called to discuss the management of Maunakea and the Mauna Kea Science Reserve.
The University of Hawai#699;i Board of Regents will meet at UH Hilo on Thursday, April 16, 2015. The special meeting is being called to discuss the management of Maunakea and the Mauna Kea Science Reserve.
The meeting begins at 11:30 a.m. in University Classroom Building, room 127.
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PW Concept of the Day.
Lack of Empathy:
Protestors and Activists do not consider the pain they inflict on others; nor do they give any credence to others' perceptions, They simply do not care about thoughts and feelings that conflict with their own. Do not expect them to listen, validate, understand, or support you.
David
Ninole Resident
Please visit vacation.ninolehawaii.com
Ninole Resident
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"the players think throwing peanuts at them is going to appease them"
It keeps coming back. This is a shakedown.
That is the concession that will eventually be made: a payoff.
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quote:
Originally posted by David M
PW Concept of the Day.
Lack of Empathy:
Protestors and Activists do not consider the pain they inflict on others; nor do they give any credence to others' perceptions, They simply do not care about thoughts and feelings that conflict with their own. Do not expect them to listen, validate, understand, or support you.
David
Ninole Resident
Please visit vacation.ninolehawaii.com
Their intellectual horizon barely makes it to the tip of their nose. They are building pathetic little tents out of dead sticks, while the other side wants to build a world-class telescope pushing the intellectual horizon or mankind deeper into deep space.
Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
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alright ironyak, i'm game for a bit on a few points,
"And yet given all these commonalities, many disagreements and misunderstandings still abound. Why?"
...there's a huge age-old question for humanity. far from a simple and single answer and one which could be asked of any society, each with it's problems both of a more shared universal nature and those characterized more by it's particular ever-changing assortment of more regional circumstances.
though i'm not exactly sure of your point in asking this question in the context here. people can and do have disagreement and misunderstanding for virtually infinite reasons under the sun. the fact that disagreements and misunderstandings exist, as they do anywhere, obviously does not in itself necessarily indicate the side by side existence of some starkly contrasting and defined cultures fundamentally unable to understand each other, as seems to be suggested as a driving force here in this day and age in our locality.
are those living and breathing among our neighbors, friends and family suddenly now some other distinct culture we fundamentally can't understand? to that i would again have to say... please, let's not romantically exaggerate, let's have a reality check here on that count.
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".....No need for anyone to be an "exotic other" to have very different and often insightful beliefs."
you may have misunderstood my meaning. by "exotic other" i was describing the result of a way of perceiving something novel which tends to exaggerate an esoteric impression upon the beholder.
actually, that pretty much fits in with my point. a large array of belief often does exist within a cohesive society, particularly a progressive and inclusive society which aims to safeguard the right to diverse belief.
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"As I've noted, there is plenty about this movement that is baffling or bothersome; the reaction to it is even more odd and disturbing IMO."
perhaps a story for another day, or perhaps not... but i grew up in part quite close-in (though not partaking) with a Puna-specific brand so very reminiscent of the type of cultural-centrist activism and idealism we have been seeing of late. you may be surprised, below the tarnished idealism there is likely more ugly baggage and poisonous double standards galore involved amongst the fervent bandwagon than you might suspect.
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quote:
Originally posted by snorkle
The Hawaiian culture is about astronomy, and resource management, and agriculture, and navigation. What they're not about, especially since the cultural renaissance; is having their culture continue to be both exploited and marginalized by others.
You people that claim the movement is "anti-science" are barking up the wrong tree. They should be major players in the control of their land, culture, and the use of their Trust held lands. They are not. This Billion dollar project is being crammed down their throats and the players think throwing peanuts at them is going to appease them.
Sorry, not anymore. I stand in awe of the motivation, dedication, and perseverance of the demonstrators. This ain't going away folks, and will continue until some major concessions are made by the State/University.
Luddite's are as Luddite's think (sort of). Their pathetic little culture is nothing - sweep it aside for the betterment of mankind and its intellectual pursuits. Their concerns are trifles, and they continue to demonstrate so with every passing hour. One man's Sacred Ground, is another man's Outhouse site. What's so sacred about it? If you rub some on your tummy, do you live forever? Does it cure disease? No, it isn't Sacred, it is just a perception in the minds of some backwards Luddite's whose day came and went a century ago.
Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
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" Fascinating read!
http://evols.library.manoa.hawaii.edu/bi...L27191.pdf"
Thank you, leilanidude. I read this article some years ago but had forgotten about it. Fascinating read about local history.
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