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you know, putting completely outlandish and even diabolically outrageous agendas into legal speak can be a extremist's tactic to camouflage and deceive. to dress that which has horrific implications into seemingly rational discourse. it's been done often enough in history.
you do realize this is getting beyond the typical extreme activism.
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quote:
Originally posted by PunaMauka2
you know, putting completely outlandish and even diabolically outrageous agendas into legal speak can be a extremist's tactic to camouflage and deceive. to dress that which has horrific implications into seemingly rational discourse. it's been done often enough in history.
you do realize this is getting beyond the typical extreme activism.
OK. What do you think should be done if the US is found to be occupying Hawaii?
Also I'm not sure how what I've wrote is extreme or outlandish. It would be the legal course of action if the US is found to be occupying the Kingdom of Hawaii.
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaimana
quote:
Originally posted by PunaMauka2
quote:
Originally posted by Kaimana
They would apply for citizenship like they would in any other nation.
compared to the volumes of legal technicalities filling previous pages is that all you have to say about the mind boggling consequences of your stated hypothetical end goal, really? one small sentence?
honestly i find that flabbergasting.
can you please address what something like you have outlined as the end goal would mean for the people of Hawaii today. otherwise what is the point of all this.
It would mean the Kindom of Hawaii would no longer be occupied and would mean we could determine our own future.
Most things would stay the same as we transition during the deoccupation period and would remain pretty similar afterwards.
Almost everything we have was set up before the occupation. State congress would go back to being the Nations congress. Judicial Branch was already established. We'd have to figure out the Executive branch.
Police, fire fighters, Dept of education, National Guard etc were all established in the Kingdom.
The main problem I've found is banking. Outside banks would have a hard time issuing loans due to the Kingdom having no credit.
I'm on my phone so I'm giving short answers.
Before you start the mass-deportation of non-Hawaiians, I do hope you follow every single "international law" that the US didn't. I think one of the tiny issues was there wasn't a vote for "independence" on the statehood ballot.
So i do hope you plan on having a statewide vote (regardless of heritage)on whether the "hawaiian kingdom" actually tries goes independent and who the king will be. It's one thing to talk about hawaiian rights and independence on ceeded lands and another to talk about the entirity of Hawaiian Islands.
so I highly doubt a majority of non-native hawaiians will voluntarily give up their US citizenship to become second class citizens in the hawaiian kingdom, I know I wouldn't.
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When one considers the fact that the U.S. government is not only NOT endowed with the power to dissolve a State of the Union and it's also required to protect all States from both foreign invasion and domestic violence, the agenda/movement has but one possible outcome. 1. It will be abandon. But not before it encounters a couple other possible routes to getting there. (a)It fades in time after Dr. Sai ruins enough peoples lives that believe and follow into his to be proven malarkey within the U.S. courts as pure nonsense. (b)It attempts to make a move in direct violation of U.S. law and its supporters are rounded up, tried and convicted of subversion etc. or for terrorism under the Patriot act, etc and sent away to prison for many years thereafter.
So the question is... is this just a discussion about opinions regarding history or is it an attempt to promote a "sovereign" movement that has factually zero chance of developing into anything positive?
When the world powers are rallying for unification through a "New World Order"... what part of its intended goal has room for positions of independence? In reality it will seek out any opportunity that may arise to further promote its goals through both domestic and International laws/Act. Will you be providing them with such an opportunity through your actions?
The way I look at this is as follows. This entire movement could indeed be a psyop, in fact brought about by covert factions to not actually gain independence for a Hawaiian Nation but rather to stir up emotions to a level where an attempted coup is executed and in that act the psyop is made successful in the fact that it has created a circumstance in which the U.S. is then politically motivated and supported publically to establish far more stringent oversight laws in the name of furthered domestic security efforts. Forever more bringing us one step closer to the "New World Order".
I see this subject and those who are gullible enough to buy into it nothing more than pawns being manipulated by a far more sinister agenda well above the heads of those engaged in the movement. History is filled with many such events as many of us know full well. Todays orchestrators are far more cunning then they were 100 years ago.
Think about the factual reality of the matters involved. These notions are simply playing with fire.
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quote:
Originally posted by Mtviewdude
quote:
Originally posted by Kaimana
quote:
Originally posted by PunaMauka2
quote:
Originally posted by Kaimana
They would apply for citizenship like they would in any other nation.
compared to the volumes of legal technicalities filling previous pages is that all you have to say about the mind boggling consequences of your stated hypothetical end goal, really? one small sentence?
honestly i find that flabbergasting.
can you please address what something like you have outlined as the end goal would mean for the people of Hawaii today. otherwise what is the point of all this.
It would mean the Kindom of Hawaii would no longer be occupied and would mean we could determine our own future.
Most things would stay the same as we transition during the deoccupation period and would remain pretty similar afterwards.
Almost everything we have was set up before the occupation. State congress would go back to being the Nations congress. Judicial Branch was already established. We'd have to figure out the Executive branch.
Police, fire fighters, Dept of education, National Guard etc were all established in the Kingdom.
The main problem I've found is banking. Outside banks would have a hard time issuing loans due to the Kingdom having no credit.
I'm on my phone so I'm giving short answers.
Before you start the mass-deportation of non-Hawaiians, I do hope you follow every single "international law" that the US didn't. I think one of the tiny issues was there wasn't a vote for "independence" on the statehood ballot.
So i do hope you plan on having a statewide vote (regardless of heritage)on whether the "hawaiian kingdom" actually tries goes independent and who the king will be. It's one thing to talk about hawaiian rights and independence on ceeded lands and another to talk about the entirity of Hawaiian Islands.
so I highly doubt a majority of non-native hawaiians will voluntarily give up their US citizenship to become second class citizens in the hawaiian kingdom, I know I wouldn't.
Have you read through the thread? I feel like you've made a lot of assumptions.
quote:
Originally posted by Wao nahele kane
When one considers the fact that the U.S. government is not only NOT endowed with the power to dissolve a State of the Union and it's also required to protect all States from both foreign invasion and domestic violence, the agenda/movement has but one possible outcome. 1. It will be abandon. But not before it encounters a couple other possible routes to getting there. (a)It fades in time after Dr. Sai ruins enough peoples lives that believe and follow into his to be proven malarkey within the U.S. courts as pure nonsense. (b)It attempts to make a move in direct violation of U.S. law and its supporters are rounded up, tried and convicted of subversion etc. or for terrorism under the Patriot act, etc and sent away to prison for many years thereafter.
So the question is... is this just a discussion about opinions regarding history or is it an attempt to promote a "sovereign" movement that has factually zero chance of developing into anything positive?
When the world powers are rallying for unification through a "New World Order"... what part of its intended goal has room for positions of independence? In reality it will seek out any opportunity that may arise to further promote its goals through both domestic and International laws/Act. Will you be providing them with such an opportunity through your actions?
The way I look at this is as follows. This entire movement could indeed be a psyop, in fact brought about by covert factions to not actually gain independence for a Hawaiian Nation but rather to stir up emotions to a level where an attempted coup is executed and in that act the psyop is made successful in the fact that it has created a circumstance in which the U.S. is then politically motivated and supported publically to establish far more stringent oversight laws in the name of furthered domestic security efforts. Forever more bringing us one step closer to the "New World Order".
I see this subject and those who are gullible enough to buy into it nothing more than pawns being manipulated by a far more sinister agenda well above the heads of those engaged in the movement. History is filled with many such events as many of us know full well. Todays orchestrators are far more cunning then they were 100 years ago.
Think about the factual reality of the matters involved. These notions are simply playing with fire.
For one if the US is found to be occupying Hawaii, then there is no State of Hawaii to dissolve.
All I'm seeing now are straw man and red herring arguments and slippery slopes.
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For ONE, The Supreme Court has already upheld the Newlands Resolution and the States admission into the Union. So where ever you think this ruling is going to come from will not be from within a U.S. Court and when it boils down to the end item, that's all that counts.
You seem to be operating under the false assumption that there's going to be some romper room court case established for this matter that will prove illegal occupation... you're being suckered big time.
"It could involve "mad" deportations"
Did you guys miss that ? Is this Tom or another regular poster pulling the troll of the decade here ?
LOL ...
Kane, mahalo, learning more than I really want to ...
You guys should all go check out the Beer thread !
aloha,
pog
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you two dont need to quote each other for every post. makes it kinda unreadable.
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Pog, LOL... Thanks for reminding me that there is beer waiting for me down stairs.
I need one.
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quote:
Originally posted by Wao nahele kane
For ONE, The Supreme Court has already upheld the Newlands Resolution and the States admission into the Union. So where ever you think this ruling is going to come from will not be from within a U.S. Court and when it boils down to the end item, that's all that counts.
You seem to be operating under the false assumption that there's going to be some romper room court case established for this matter that will prove illegal occupation... you're being suckered big time.
Are you referring to the Mankichi ruling?
