One more observatory in addition to TMT?

[PunaMauka2]

as the publish timing and subject matter coincide with comments previously made here in this thread, i believe i may have stumbled across one of the sources shedding light on the clandestine involvement of the U.S. military-industrial complex with the astronomy-industry development on Mauna Kea.

this essay written by David Maile, originally published in The Red Nation, part 1 republished on May 13, 2015 in The Hawaii Independent,

title: Science, time and Mauna a Wakea: the Thirty-Meter Telescope’s capitalist-colonialist violence

http://hawaiiindependent.net/story/scien...alist-colo

to read area directly relevant, see section Science is Militarist, directly below sections Science Matters, Science Is Colonialist, and Science Is Racist.


"Science is Militarist

We might also understand this colonial and racial violence leveled at Hawaiians in the context of astronomy-industry development’s collaboration with the U.S. military. In her Civil Beat article, Jessica Terrell admitted that some of the 13 pre-existing telescopes at Mauna Kea are utilized to develop military technology.

...The truth is that current telescopes at Mauna Kea are working on technology that bolsters U.S. military power. Meanwhile, the U.S. maintains an army training ground at Pohakuloa in the saddle between Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa, and militarization of Hawai‘i has been and continues to be incredibly violent and seemingly insatiable. Although my central focus is a critique of the TMT’s capitalist-colonialist violence, its relationship with the U.S. military-industrial complex, as well as Hawai‘i’s violent and ongoing militarization by U.S. empire, should not be disregarded. This is especially concerning as the TMT’s potential collaboration with U.S. empire is being funded by governments like Canada, Japan, China, and India."


sardonic jest: hopefully this essay will help allow a better understanding among our guests of this important Kanaka Maoli issue and lead to a negotiated middle-ground with my people and our sacred Lahui Hawai‘i.

-------

added edit: i could not seem to locate the Civil Beat article by Jessica Terrell referenced to in this essay.

[Rob Tucker]

PunaMauka2,

That is rather vague, waving arms in the air stuff. On the same basis one could say agriculture is militarist.

[Wao nahele kane]

We can do just that Rob -
Agriculture... ? There are several current Military Agriculture operations underway according to Secret DOD Files, two of which are found under the titles Operation Monsanto and Operation Asgrow both of which are tasked with Covert Biological Incursion to reduce the human populations within their tasked regions of operations. Within their outlines are the subjects Scientific Compensation, Public Propaganda, Judiciary Grid Lock, Legislative and Executive Kick Backs , Agency Regulation Restraint, Deployment of Biological Agents, Corps Disposal, Sister Operation Support, etc.
Now... TMT plays into this through resonance activation. When enough of these biological products have been consumed and facilitated within the target hosts. TMT's task is to begin sending a resonant frequency to the moon wherein it will begin to resonate and affect the human hosts biological absorbed target products which will begin to resonate in the IR frequency range inducing a cooking effect of each target host.

Anyhow... there's much more but I need to brush my teeth and don't have enough time to finish pulling more of this nonsense out of my keister.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

In her Civil Beat article, Jessica Terrell admitted that some of the 13 pre-existing telescopes at Mauna Kea are utilized to develop military technology.

Jessica Terrell's comments are in no way an admission that the telescopes are used to create military technology. She simply stated the military uses available technology. It's like saying the Apple iPad is utilized to develop military technology. Or a Dell computer monitor is utilized to develop military technology:

For example, sometimes the military will develop a new technology, like a giant sensor chip for recording images, said Don Hall, a tenured professor and former director at IfA. Then researchers will partner with companies to adapt that technology for low-light use in astronomy.

Although the university researchers never work on technology for military use, Hall said, in some instances the upgrades piggyback off each other. A military use is improved for astronomy and then that improvement is taken up by the military.
http://www.civilbeat.com/2015/04/mauna-k...-easy-one/

[Guest]

JMO, concerned and Hoping maunakea does not take part in enabling other countries to further promote violence or war around the world. The technology and Intel can and will be used by the militaries, India who has invested in the project a couple hundred million. They may be interested in the technology of the lenses being made or designed in a lab at a California university, and the chrome or polish being made in japan. The different technology being used by this TMT project may be used by other countries militaries in the future? Maybe new spy satilites for the next generation will be equipped and put in space with the same type of technology tried and used first here by the Hawaiians? Shared or discovered intel could be problematic in the future as well when the enablers have to look for those to blame. Jmo of course.

[opihikao]

First, apologies for the off topic, however, must address the "rumor" source (wrong), and questions with regard to my comment about the military.

Senator Daniel Inouye was a big supporter of TMT. Esther Kia'aina worked for Inouye at one time, and is sharp as a tack. Perhaps she'll respond if asked pertinent questions. Her contact info below:

http://www.doi.gov/oia/about/amb-bio.cfm

Or, just google it, "Senator Inouye supports TMT", etc., whatever wording works.

Check out the investors of TMT, and grants from USA various departments to Universities for "research". (Start at the Pentagon, and work through the Dept. of Justice, Homeland Security, Dept. of Interior, etc.)

Here's a start:

http://news.sciencemag.org/funding/2014/...iversities

http://ast.noao.edu/system/us-tmt-liaison/survey-faq

http://ast.noao.edu/system/us-tmt-liaison

Not to mention, in the EIS, the Dept. of Homeland Security is a participant:

Document here: (PDF) http://tinyurl.com/luvxba7


Oh, wait, it was just a rumor or two for the past ten years, shouldn't have mentioned it. For the record, our ohana fully supports our military; all branches. Don't understand why it's such a big deal, nor a surprise, and why the dander is up about the military potentially being, or becoming involved in the TMT. Makes perfect sense to me, given the history of the USA and our national security.


Back to topic, the problem with existing heiau or structures on Mauna Kea would be "kapu" and should not be used by anyone, frankly. Perhaps an area not at the top for the "Hawaiian cultural observation area".

Now I'm done with this thread. Mahalo for the great idea, Mr. Tucker, and hopefully it is part of the solution.

JMO.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

The technology and Intel (from the TMT) can and will be used by the militaries
...
Check out the investors of TMT, and grants from USA various departments to Universities for "research".

Here is what I would appreciate posted here.
Instead of potential imaginary military applications, or links to multiple page descriptions or summaries of possible or indirect government research grants to telescopes on Mauna Kea, can anyone post a link that shows something like this:

Air Force Maui Optical and Supercomputing observatory on Haleakala
It's primary mission for Air Force Space Command, the Maui Space Surveillance System combines large-aperture tracking optics with visible and infrared sensors to collect data on near Earth and deep-space objects.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_M...bservatory

This clearly shows that an observatory on Maui is affiliated with the US Air Force and is conducting military research. It's a high security facility, yet the information is easily available on the internet. Would someone please post links that show this same clear, direct connection between any observatory on Mauna Kea and the military. How hard is it? I found the Maui connection with a link in less than 10 seconds.

[opihikao]

P.S. Just responding to HOTPE, out of respect. TMT is not built yet. Disclosures are not made due to "proprietary information", as certain portions of the leases/subleases are not completely a "done deal". That is my understanding, FWIW, which is "nada" (I just share what fact, fiction, or rumors that are out there for discussion).

In short, how can we not expect the military to be involved? This is an international project, with international consequences; both good or bad.

What "rumors" are out there, coincide (sometimes years later) with factual information. Again, should not have even raised the subject.

Apologies, HOTPE & Mr. Tom for even mentioning the bloody rumors. Signing out via telepathy (waltzing out of the thread ...[])

Have a good evening all.

JMO.

ETA: The protectors could use the current hale they built across the Visitor's Center for a site. It is well done (sans the ants), and has been a gathering place for many in the past few weeks.

[pahoated]

The bigger question is how did these anti-TMT people find out about the Top Secret applications of the TMT? Einstein said if you could see far enough, you would see the back of your head. That is what the military application is. The TMT will be able to see beyond the beginning and will end up seeing itself. This is the space mirror the military has been dreaming of. Look up and you see down, look down and you see up. The military applications are endless, with the ultimate plan to destroy all life on this planet, thereby achieving eternal world peace. The plan seemed perfect, make all the financing private, without a single military agency customer or partner. How have these anti-TMT people found this out? The only way is if they are North Korean or Chinese or Russian or Tibetan spies. These countries agree with the protesters, this telescope is a threat to their enviable and jealously protected way of life. There might be some MJ12 investigations beginning in this area.

"Aloha also means goodbye. Aloha!"

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

how can we not expect the military to be involved? This is an international project

That is exactly why we can expect the military to not get involved. They do not play well with others, especially foreign nations. The military does not want most AMERICANS to see what they are doing, much less Canadians, Japanese, etc.

Also, the military's interest in space is mainly to keep track of satellites from other nations, especially Russia and China. They already have that capability twice-fold with observatories on Maui. Mauna Kea is so close to Haleakala they would gain no advantage in placing a duplicate facility on Mauna Kea. Our mountain does not provide a unique vantage point or any improvement in tracking capabilities. They need to know the orbit of a satellite, not the ability to read it's serial number with a bigger scope.

Perhaps they've made improvements over the years, but it's pretty difficult to take a clear photo of an object 200 miles away moving at 17,000 miles an hour. I can hardly get a shot of my 6 year old grandson without some blur on at least one of his appendages.