Hawaiian Independent Sovereignty - How?

[pahoated]

You aren't rational so this is a waste to respond.

I WAS POINTING OUT THE AKAKA BILL IS FROM A DEMOCRAT.

THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE TWISTED THE AKAKA BILL TO MEAN IT CLASSIFIES THE HAWAIIAN NATIVES AS TRIBES, IS EVIL MISINFORMATION BY THE REPUBLICANS.

LOOK AT EVERY INDIVIDUAL THAT FIRMLY STATES THE AKAKA BILL IS TO CLASSIFY NATIVE HAWAIIANS AS JUST DIRTY REDSKINS, IS A REPUBLICAN.

"Aloha also means goodbye. Aloha!"

[leilanidude]

quote:

---

Originally posted by pahoated

You aren't rational so this is a waste to respond.

I WAS POINTING OUT THE AKAKA BILL IS FROM A DEMOCRAT.

THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE TWISTED THE AKAKA BILL TO MEAN IT CLASSIFIES THE HAWAIIAN NATIVES AS TRIBES, IS EVIL MISINFORMATION BY THE REPUBLICANS.

LOOK AT EVERY INDIVIDUAL THAT FIRMLY STATES THE AKAKA BILL IS TO CLASSIFY NATIVE HAWAIIANS AS JUST DIRTY REDSKINS, IS A REPUBLICAN.

"Aloha also means goodbye. Aloha!"

---

Ted, Your beloved Democrats, even though they held the majority, didn't want to pass it in the first place! You really need to stop blaming everything on Republicans.

[Wao nahele kane]

I'm not rational?
The DOI put forth an offer to recommend to the federal government the formation of a single representative government for the Native Hawaiian people and they nearly all knocked down the idea. The Aka Bill brings forth the same idea and doesn't pass in the Senate.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you're referencing the Aka Bill, tribes, "dirty redskins" and all that blabber.

The Native Hawaiian people got together and shot down the idea of a Unified Single Hawaiian Government to represent their interests within the DOI meetings last year. Those meetings were not about drafting reservation boundaries or any other matter beyond forming a single unified Hawaiian Government and how the native peoples would like to go about having that done.

Had the Native Hawaiian people worked with the DOI and put together a tentative plan, the DOI would have had something to recommend to the Legislature and Executive but the DOI instead walked away empty handed.
Had the meeting brought forth some ideas then those would have been recommended and today we might have had a Native Hawaiian Nation undergoing the process of structuring itself. After that had been established then negotiations for lands etc. could commence with the federal government.

At this point, most everything is still in limbo and will remain that way until some form of recognized solidified representation can be established. If it cannot be established through a singular representative Native Hawaiian government perhaps it can be established through several individual governing groups instead.

Now you appear to think that the US can simply grant an Independent Sovereign Nation into existence within the State of Hawaii Ex nihilo based on a vast array divisive claims of a divided group of peoples. You might as well be stating that the US can create a Domestic Sovereign for Greenpeace and every other environmental group out there and shove them all onto a designated parcel of land chosen by the US.

If there isn't cohesiveness found in some form somewhere amongst the native Hawaiians then the governments hands are firmly tied behind their backs. Some Native Hawaiians don't want anything to do with a Native Hawaiian Government and prefer things just as they are today. So... how to approach the situation becomes the million dollar question.

[pahoated]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wao nahele kane
how to approach the situation becomes the million dollar question.

---

You are irrational because you keep asking the same question, even when an answer has been given. The Akaka bill is the offered approach. The people against the Akaka bill are Republicans. The Republicans are behind the Hawaiian Kingdom movement. They know the Hawaiians can't organize properly behind a Hawaiian kingdom movement, since as even you have realized, there is no consensus possible.

Start by reviewing the facts, then start forming opinions. The fact is the pre-contact number of native Hawaiians was estimated to be 300,000 to 500,000 in 1779, after the measles and other western disease epidemics were contained, the number was about 40,000 in 1884. Today, the estimate of native Hawaiians (50% or more bloodline) is 15,000. That number is rapidly declining. Native Hawaiians have a much younger mortality rate than almost all the migrants that have made their way to these islands. Overlay that declining population chart over a timeline of when a consensus of who forms a Hawaiian Kingdom, and the estimate is by the time the Hawaiian Kingdom is formed, there will be no native Hawaiians. It will be the ironies of ironies if that happens. Southern Rush says it best, will there be any left 100 years from now?
This guy really sums up a lot in the first few minutes, and he understands the situation better than most Hawaiians, even with the statement he is a non-native native Hawaiian in the first few minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P0VRfEfiCo

BTW, it is the Republicans that are saying the Akaka bill makes Hawaiians dirty redskins. Typical Republican tactic, use racism as proof they are not racist. "Dirty Redskin" is an example of a totally white American English phrase, from people that claim to abhor racism, not invented or used anywhere else on this planet.


"Aloha also means goodbye. Aloha!"

[PunaMauka2]

Q: who is Hawaiian? what exactly is the criteria?

[Wao nahele kane]

As per the not yet passed "Akaka Bill" -
"Section 3 defines "Native Hawaiian" as:
(i) an individual who is 1 of the indigenous, native people of Hawaii and who is a direct lineal descendant of the aboriginal, indigenous, native people who-- (I) resided in the islands that now comprise the State of Hawaii on or before January 1, 1893; and(II) occupied and exercised sovereignty in the Hawaiian archipelago, including the area that now constitutes the State of Hawaii; or(ii) an individual who is 1 of the indigenous, native people of Hawaii and who was eligible in 1921 for the programs authorized by the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act (42 Stat. 108, chapter 42) or a direct lineal descendant of that individual."

Here's an article that discusses the matter with regard to the US DOI OHA.
http://thegardenisland.com/news/local/fe...963f4.html

So when it boils right down to that matter, no-one knows just yet, which is yet another stumbling stone to determine a settlement. Who are "they".?

[PunaMauka2]

thanks for providing the legal definition as proposed in the not-yet-passed Akaka Bill, Wao nahele kane. i don't see any reference to % of lineal descent, so i presume that means as little as a fraction of 1% of said racial category legally qualifies for special status.

that touches on the problem of a legal definition. i am also interested in the causal definition as used in everyday conversation. obviously there would be a wide ranging spectrum of definitions. so often i see the term thrown around quite casually and in a way often suggesting that some innate special traits are bestowed upon those given the highly loaded title (elevated spirituality, connection to nature, primary status of belonging, etc). ..as if all these traits are passed down primarily by "lineal descent", or being hereditary. does 10% "indigenous Hawaiian" lineal descent outweigh, say, 90% ethnic English ancestry? are we suddenly finding ourselves in the realm of quantifying racial purity?

[Wao nahele kane]

PunaMauka2,
"does 10% "indigenous Hawaiian" lineal descent outweigh, say, 90% ethnic English ancestry?"
It would appear not, when put into practice.
Here's an example regarding Hawaiian Homelands applicant qualifications.
"•You must be a native Hawaiian, defined as “any descendant of not less than one-half part of the blood of the races inhabiting the Hawaiian Islands previous to 1778.” This means, you must have a blood quantum of at least 50 percent Hawaiian. This requirement remains unchanged since the HHCA’s passage in 1921."
http://dhhl.hawaii.gov/applications/appl...ome-lands/

[knieft]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test

http://dna.ancestry.com

Whenever they figure out what percent is proper to be Hawaiian, they can swab the folks and see. No need for paperwork.

Cheers,
Kirt