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quote:
Originally posted by gypsy69
Some of us tax-payers may not want to support businesses like club evergreen, my family and I certainly don't. Club evergreen is known to be one of the best hostess bars or clubs(not because of the food) in the entire state of Hawaii, also its the last to close most mornings at 4:00a.m.
http://honoluluweekly.com/cover/2011/03/...ter-worth/
It may continue to be Very hard to make good moral or ethic decisions in hawaii. Especially if our elected leaders continue to look the other way, while spending our money in these kind of sleazy establishments,jmo.
Good article gypsy, here's an excerpt about hostess bars in honolulu:
“I represented a Korean woman working in a hostess bar,” says Hanusz. “She was arrested in an enforcement raid. She wasn’t charged criminally, actually she was not even working at that bar, but she was asked for identification, and all she had was a Korean passport.”
Hanusz says the woman was sent to the federal detention center and held without bond. After a phone call from another attorney, she found an interpretor and asked the Korean woman the details of how she made it to Honolulu.
“Turns out that she came here through Mexico on a raft through the Rio Grande,” she adds. “Red flag number one–that’s not how Korean women typically enter the US.
“That was her trafficker’s third attempt. Previously, she’d tried coming through Canada. She was coming to Honolulu to work at a hostess bar, but she did not know that was going to involve sexual services. She paid a recruiter a large amount of money. Here’s another example of a debt-bondage situation.”
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Ironyak (Kalakoa, etc)
"...Seems like a fact that Kenoi had helping paying back his personal pCard purchases, yes?"
Yes, and no. Context matters, especially here. Arguments are being made about the Mayors "inability" to pay his debts. Others seem to suggest that special interests are stepping up to cover for the Mayor (presumably to gain quid pro quo). Is this what YOU mean?
Actually what the article says is that those individuals and trade organizations paid the expenses in real time, as they were responsible, and before the Pcard became a cause celebre. That's a big difference, since it suggests that there was no subterfuge but instead legitimate acceptance of responsibility.
Kinda like what Billy has done all along.
The criticisms of the Mayor so far seem to rely on moral outrage. This outrage seems misplaced due to the lack of obvious illegal activities (A gentle reminder, an indictment is not proof, so leave that on the side for a while). In the meantime there's a whole bunch of making s*** up, seemingly due to either poor reading comprehension skills, conflation, resentment or, all of the above.
For the record, I have been described as an apologist for the Mayor. How would you feel, what would you think, if I were just playing as a "Devils advocate". Or how about if I were just engaging in sophistry? In other words, can you separate an argument from the arguer? Can you respect one without accepting the other? Or do you have to demonize the arguer in order to ignore or subvert the argument ?
I know I have a hard time taking some of you seriously...one can't be that devoid of critical reasoning can (insert one of many names here)?
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Ironyak (Kalakoa, etc)
"...Seems like a fact that Kenoi had helping paying back his personal pCard purchases, yes?"
Yes, and no. Context matters, especially here. Arguments are being made about the Mayors "inability" to pay his debts. Others seem to suggest that special interests are stepping up to cover for the Mayor (presumably to gain quid pro quo). Is this what YOU mean?
Actually what the article says is that those individuals and trade organizations paid the expenses in real time, as they were responsible, and before the Pcard became a cause celebre. That's a big difference, since it suggests that there was no subterfuge but instead legitimate acceptance of responsibility.
Kinda like what Billy has done all along.
The criticisms of the Mayor so far seem to rely on moral outrage. This outrage seems misplaced due to the lack of obvious illegal activities (A gentle reminder, an indictment is not proof, so leave that on the side for a while). In the meantime there's a whole bunch of making s*** up, seemingly due to either poor reading comprehension skills, conflation, resentment or, all of the above.
For the record, I have been described as an apologist for the Mayor. How would you feel, what would you think, if I were just playing as a "Devils advocate". Or how about if I were just engaging in sophistry? In other words, can you separate an argument from the arguer? Can you respect one without accepting the other? Or do you have to demonize the arguer in order to ignore or subvert the argument ?
I know I have a hard time taking some of you seriously...one can't be that devoid of critical reasoning can (insert one of many names here)?
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"[...]Can you respect one without accepting the other? Or do you have to demonize the arguer in order to ignore or subvert the argument ?
I know I have a hard time taking some of you seriously...one can't be that devoid of critical reasoning can (insert one of many names here)?"
Delicious irony.
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HiloPuna -
Adding to the irony of objecting to the use of ad hominem attacks only to then use one yourself that TomK noted, is your characterization that "there was no subterfuge but instead legitimate acceptance of responsibility. Kinda like what Billy has done all along."
Signing an agreement that no personal purchases are to be made on the pCard, then making $30,000+ in personal purchases (nearly 1 in 4 of all purchases) isn't accepting responsibility.
Having to pay back clearly personal pCard purchases like Hawaii State Bar dues over a year after the fact isn't being responsible.
Denying spending hundreds of dollars at bars like Club Evergreen (despite several charges at Camelot, Kenichi, and others) isn't accepting responsibility.
Failing to disclose thousands of dollars in gifts annually as required by law isn't being responsible.
Not having enough cash or a credit/debit card on hand to cover daily personal expenses isn't a sign of responsibility.
Many of us have to keep separate our work and personal expenses and do it for far less than the mayor's $130,000+ pay, or we could lose our job or, in egregious cases, face criminal charges. Why should it be any different for BillyK?
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the mayor's $130,000+ pay
Note that the median income for this county is about $45K.
I expect that someone (public employee or not) making over $100K should be able to pay their own hostess tab. I would further expect such a person to have sufficient discretion to pay that tab in cash.
In some ways the appearance of corruption is worse than the actual corruption.
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People here have mentioned how he's embarrassed his wife and family, but how about the way he's embarrassed his constituents?
What are people on Kauai saying about us dummies on the Big Island, who chose such a greedy jerk for mayor? (Their comments, of course, are based solely on what they read in the paper; they probably haven't bothered to come here to Punaweb to read this balanced discussion of the matter.)
><(((*< ... ><(("< ... ><('< ... >o>
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For the record, I have been described as an apologist for the Mayor. "How would you feel, what would you think, if I were just playing as a "Devils advocate". Or how about if I were just engaging in sophistry? In other words, can you separate an argument from the arguer? Can you respect one without accepting the other? Or do you have to demonize the arguer in order to ignore or subvert the argument ?" -HiloPuna
________________________-
An deceased neighbor of mine, retired English professor did this daily. He had pseudonyms in the letters to the editor of all the island newspapers and numerous internet forums. By representing a fictional character with opposing political views to his own, he felt he "educated" folks.
But in reality he was an angry manipulative old man who did not have the respect of his family or neighbors.
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quote:
Originally posted by Lee M-S
People here have mentioned how he's embarrassed his wife and family, but how about the way he's embarrassed his constituents?
What are people on Kauai saying about us dummies on the Big Island, who chose such a greedy jerk for mayor? (Their comments, of course, are based solely on what they read in the paper; they probably haven't bothered to come here to Punaweb to read this balanced discussion of the matter.)
><(((*< ... ><(("< ... ><('< ... >o>
Some on O'Ahu feel the same way. I can't say all because it's possible some may actually feel sorry for us. Fortunately, people have very short political memories so it shouldn't take too many years to live this down.
Puna: Our roosters crow first
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I'm just amazed about the number of people that just want to brush it off. He done us wrong! It'll always be wrong, and you don't have to be a genius to KNOW it's wrong. His past record. his genial personality (don't know the man myself), the fact that he did some good things, do not excuse him. I'm sure he's a swell guy and plays a mean game of pool, and is fun to be with. As an elected official, he does not meet my requirements.
Jon in Keaau/HPP
Jon in Keaau/HPP
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