Court remands TMT sublease

[TomK]

"[...]there is a lot of aerospace on the west end of Kauai[...]"

Anyone kind enough to translate? It's beyond me.

[Tink]

Only thing I've ever seen is the Pacific Missile Range (Barking Sands), Monsanto, Syngenta, and ag testing fields. Did I miss something?

Community begins with Aloha

[kalakoa]

It would be better for science if TMT went to the India site.

Social science, perhaps -- I'm sure State would spend a fair amount on "studies" to determine "what went wrong".

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

It would be better for science if TMT went to the India site.

I'm curious, did you come to this conclusion through your discussions with any scientists? If so, would you mind sharing some of their comments on the advantages of placing one of the most advanced technological instruments on the planet in a location so inaccessible it has no infrastructure of any kind at the site, and requires a 10 hour drive from the nearest town?

"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives." -Annie Dillard

[kalakoa]

a location so inaccessible it has no infrastructure of any kind at the site

It's probably a wash...

Hawaii: $1.4B construction + 500M court battle for permits

India: $500M construction + 1.4B new infrastructure

[kalakoa]

That's American dollars kalakoa, it'd probably be chump change in India.

Common misconception -- while the in-country wages are lower, there are substantial extra costs involved in doing business there: import duties on all your equipment, bring your own electricity (grid isn't reliable), buy 2-3 internet connections ("premium commercial-grade" service only guarantees 95% uptime), extra headcount (they don't work that hard), language barrier, timezone difference...

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Has anyone on Punaweb viewed firsthand some of the infrastructure in India?
American infrastructure = the latest Apple iPad
Indian infrastructure = a pencil

The labor force in India that builds towers, roads, multistory structures, if compared to the Pahoa roundabout construction, would require at least a 10 to 1 ratio, plus a supervisor for every 5 manual laborers, and supervisors for those supervisors. Most likely it would crumble in 3-4 years after completion.

I once entered a line in India, but when I reached the desk clerk after an hour of waiting, was told I didn't have a document required to talk to him. He pointed me to another line outside the building where I could get the necessary paperwork. After another half hour of waiting, I reached a nondescript guy squatting on the steps who placed an "X" mark in pencil on the edge of a piece of paper, then tore off the smallest, ragged little slip he could manage, and handed it to me. Now I was fully authorized to stand in the original line for another hour...

"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives." -Annie Dillard

[TomK]

"Meanwhile, the Chinese are almost finished with the planet's largest radio telescope, for $185 million, versus $1.4 billion for TMT. This radio telescope is going to be able to see EM that TMT is unable to see. It would be better for science if TMT went to the India site."

Conversely, the Chinese radio telescope is unable to detect EM the TMT will see, so it's a bit of a pointless argument. Also, I have yet to see any site testing data that are relevant to the TMT for the Indian site, so I don't know how anyone can say the TMT in India would be better for science.

[kalakoa]

I don't know how anyone can say the TMT in India would be better for science.

Not better for astronomy, certainly, but if TMT does move to India there could easily be a few papers published in other areas of scientific research (politics, psychology, etc).

[TomK]

Unfortunately, I don't think the TMT partners are that interested in funding the sociological fields.