TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo

[kalakoa]

Most of which would be Geothermal produced electricity by the year the TMT project becomes operational

So ... TMT would be perfectly okay if it was powered by oil-fired generators, with that oil imported from off-island (and thus, shipped here with more oil)?

[Eric1600]

Cooling an enclosed room to the outside ambient temperature is much more efficient than cooling a room that has lots of people going in and out to 15-20 degrees below ambient temperature.

So places like Costco, Target, Walmart, Home Depot expend more energy cooling per square foot than the observatories would.

If the real issue is power usage, then they should be shutting the AC off on those large stores and hotels/resorts.

[Tink]

More than likely the reason for the high electrical usage is transformers. A lot of Industrial type equipment (motors, pumps, etc.) run on a much higher voltage at 3 phase, where most homes run lower voltage, single phase. There is no "on/off" switch on these transformers to convert line current to what they need, so hence the high usage, as they run 24/7 whether power is neede or not.
How much electricity is used at a resort, as mentioned? To keep the Tourii comfortable in their room with the A/C on high and the windows all wide open, every swimming pool, pond pump motor going around the clock, lights on in the lobby and grounds, charging their golf cart overnight....

Community begins with Aloha

[Eric1600]

quote:

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Originally posted by Tink

More than likely the reason for the high electrical usage is transformers. A lot of Industrial type equipment (motors, pumps, etc.) run on a much higher voltage at 3 phase, where most homes run lower voltage, single phase. There is no "on/off" switch on these transformers to convert line current to what they need, so hence the high usage, as they run 24/7 whether power is neede or not.

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Substations use power transformers that are 100% efficient. It's the HELCO sub-station that is getting upgraded for TMT so it's most likely a power transformer. These are used for the transmission purpose at heavy load, high voltage greater than 33 KV & 100% efficiency.

On site they probably will have a distribution transformer which will have its primary on 24/7 but it's efficiency (50% to 75%) is proportional to the load. So less load, less wasted power. These types of transformers are used everywhere on the power grids and there's nothing unique about them in regards to observatories (single phase or 3 phase).

3 Phase is actually a more efficient way to run motors and move electricity in general and systems using it will waste less power.

[MarkP]

Power is trasmitted at high voltage then transformers are used to reduce high voltage to low voltage used by appliances for safety reasons. The more industrial the process and the more controlled the environment the higher the final voltage because higher voltage means less current and it is presumed that trained technicians are less likely to poke things in sockets than children playing in the living room would be. There would always be transformers involved because power is transmitted at thousands of volts and with a few exceptions used at hundreds of volts.

[Guest]

Prolly should go to another forum but some good, practical info for shop "Puna" shop guys.

http://lumberjocks.com/LittlePaw/blog/34289

[TomK]

Eric1600,

"Substations use power transformers that are 100% efficient."

This is a bit off-topic, but wondered if you could explain? I'm unaware of any system that's 100% efficient.

In the meantime, the latest opinion piece about the TMT at Civil Beat:

http://www.civilbeat.org/2016/08/tmt-sho...n-culture/

[Eric1600]

quote:

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Originally posted by TomK
Eric1600,

"Substations use power transformers that are 100% efficient."

This is a bit off-topic, but wondered if you could explain? I'm unaware of any system that's 100% efficient.

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I was rounding a bit. Large power transformers (around 100 MVA and larger) may attain an efficiency as high as 99.75% whereas the low end of the scale for power transformers (100 MVA to 1 MVA) is about 98.5%

Distribution transformers are less efficient. Since the TMT is upgrading the HELCO substation it is probably a high power transformer and will have high efficiency.

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkP

Power is trasmitted at high voltage then transformers are used to reduce high voltage to low voltage used by appliances for safety reasons. The more industrial the process and the more controlled the environment the higher the final voltage because higher voltage means less current and it is presumed that trained technicians are less likely to poke things in sockets than children playing in the living room would be. There would always be transformers involved because power is transmitted at thousands of volts and with a few exceptions used at hundreds of volts.

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Hi Mark, I don't know if you were talking to me or not. But high voltage (tens of thousands of volts up to 765,000 volts in US) is used strictly for efficiency, not safety. Our small house appliances however would cost a fortune and be big as a house because of insulation requirements on high voltage, so it has to be reduced for practical size reasons at homes or smaller facilities.

The thing that makes electricity the most dangerous is the available energy or current, not necessarily the voltage. A zap you get when touching the door knob (in less humid places than Hawaii) is about 5,000 volts to 25,000 volts, but it is very low in energy (current is small) and we only feel a tingle. However 110 volts is enough to easily kill someone if it is a high power line which has a large amount of current.

[kalakoa]

Bypass shoulder widening, fuggeddiboutit.

State keeps 10% of the GET surcharge for Oahu's rail project. Skimming, if you will.

Thus far they've collected $160M, same as the estimated 130 widening project. Which we "don't have money for".

[opihikao]

Back to topic, FYI: (*Snipped - More at link)

http://westhawaiitoday.com/news/local-ne...-positions

Executive privilege could keep Gov. David Ige from testifying during the Thirty Meter Telescope contested case.

The state Department of the Attorney General filed a motion Monday seeking a protective order for Ige, state Board of Land and Natural Resources Chairwoman Suzanne Case and board member Stanley Roehrig.

Each were part of the witness list submitted by attorney Richard Wurdeman, who represents the original six TMT contested case petitioners. Their list suggests a representative of the governor’s office could act as a substitute.

Parties in the contested case are allowed to call witnesses for testimony before hearings officer Riki May Amano.

The state argues that executive privilege should keep Ige and Case from being called as a witness.

“Gov. Ige and Chair Case enjoy immunity from testifying absent extraordinary circumstances,” the state’s motion says. “The party summoning a high-ranking government official has the burden of establishing that only the official can provide the information sought.”

The state also argues that quasi-judicial immunity should prevent Case and Roehrig from testifying since the Land Board is responsible for deciding whether the telescope should again receive its land use permit for Mauna Kea.

The state Supreme Court remanded the permit after ruling in December that the board violated the state’s constitution by voting in favor of the permit prior to the original contested case.

About two dozen parties are now part of the contested case, a quasi-judicial hearing. At least 135 witnesses have been proposed.

Amano will hold another hearing from 2-5 p.m. Friday at the Hawaii Community College cafeteria.