Posts: 10,212
Threads: 344
Joined: Apr 2009
pahoated wrote:
"Here is an example of one upgrade to an existing observatory going on. It will be using a single optical fiber as a steerable telescope."
DESI will use 5,000 optical fibers, not one, and those fibers are hardly telescopes. Also, the project is only looking at a specific area of astrophysics and can't be compared to the varied work the current MK observatories do or what the TMT will do.
ETA bolding.
To quote another respected poster. Can I get a TL;DR on this?
Tom and Pahaoted, your sophomoric tit for tat posts have become a yawnfest, get a room and sort it out.
eta JMO
What is it worth to find a habitable, earthlike planet? TMT is crucial to that endeavor.
What will it be worth in a few decades when this planet is irretrievably wrecked?
Is it worth more than the satisfaction of a small gang of lawyered fanatics with a political agenda?
---------------------------
You can't fix Samsara.
Posts: 664
Threads: 67
Joined: Mar 2016
quote:
Originally posted by pahoated
What bugs me about TMT is what does it do for me, as a resident of this island? So far, it has done diddly-squat positively and truckloads negatively.
I'm going to ignore your repeated demonstration of confusion over astronomy and just comment about how the TMT helps you.
Since they started construction (even after it was halted again) the TMT has been pouring money into the education funds in Hawaii. In good faith they've spent over $3 million dollars without any promised benefits.
Have you noticed all the high schools that are suddenly competing in robotics competitions? Some even nationally? There are also 30 students employed now at high-tech companies around the islands. Not to mention the new scholarships given out to students in STEM fields.
What does this do for you? It reduces the number of unskilled people sitting around with nothing better to do than cause trouble or do drugs or both. It changes peoples mentality and gives hope to many more who see other, productive possibilities and things they can do with their lives. In general it reduces the number of stupid people.
It's a long term process. Things won't change overnight. But if Hawaii is going to be more than a place for rich people to spend money while everyone does their laundry and changes their sheets, then something different has to be done.
Chasing the astronomy industry away would only be a long term loss for everyone.
Posts: 2,481
Threads: 10
Joined: Feb 2008
I don't consider that I have heard from a representative sample of Native Hawaiians. I have heard from a vocal and irrational minority who have an ax to grind. The voice of PUEO finally speaking up drives home how strikingly absent such a viewpoint has been until now. The actions of the protesters are functionally equivalent to those of parents who draw a social security number for their kids then steal their identity and ruin their credit. On some level it must feel good, getting something for nothing, but it requires a shocking lack of appreciation for the damage being done, a lack of willingness and ability to assign value to their children's future. That and a taste for cheap thrills in the here and now. Yes, I consider practicing superstitious rituals in the 21st century to be cheap thrills. More so I consider derailing public policy for fun to be a cheap thrill so while it would be bad enough to derail a project of such merit over a personal interpretation of what a culture hundreds of years ago might have thought and done, it is worse when many probably aren't even sincere in those cultural/religious beliefs but are essentially only shouting fire in a crowded theater.
Posts: 7
Threads: 1
Joined: May 2013
quote:
Originally posted by Eric1600
quote:
Originally posted by pahoated
What bugs me about TMT is what does it do for me, as a resident of this island? So far, it has done diddly-squat positively and truckloads negatively.
I'm going to ignore your repeated demonstration of confusion over astronomy and just comment about how the TMT helps you.
Since they started construction (even after it was halted again) the TMT has been pouring money into the education funds in Hawaii. In good faith they've spent over $3 million dollars without any promised benefits.
Have you noticed all the high schools that are suddenly competing in robotics competitions? Some even nationally? There are also 30 students employed now at high-tech companies around the islands. Not to mention the new scholarships given out to students in STEM fields.
What does this do for you? It reduces the number of unskilled people sitting around with nothing better to do than cause trouble or do drugs or both. It changes peoples mentality and gives hope to many more who see other, productive possibilities and things they can do with their lives. In general it reduces the number of stupid people.
It's a long term process. Things won't change overnight. But if Hawaii is going to be more than a place for rich people to spend money while everyone does their laundry and changes their sheets, then something different has to be done.
Chasing the astronomy industry away would only be a long term loss for everyone.
Posts: 7
Threads: 1
Joined: May 2013
quote:
Originally posted by Eric1600
quote:
Originally posted by pahoated
What bugs me about TMT is what does it do for me, as a resident of this island? So far, it has done diddly-squat positively and truckloads negatively.
I'm going to ignore your repeated demonstration of confusion over astronomy and just comment about how the TMT helps you.
Since they started construction (even after it was halted again) the TMT has been pouring money into the education funds in Hawaii. In good faith they've spent over $3 million dollars without any promised benefits.
Have you noticed all the high schools that are suddenly competing in robotics competitions? Some even nationally? There are also 30 students employed now at high-tech companies around the islands. Not to mention the new scholarships given out to students in STEM fields.
What does this do for you? It reduces the number of unskilled people sitting around with nothing better to do than cause trouble or do drugs or both. It changes peoples mentality and gives hope to many more who see other, productive possibilities and things they can do with their lives. In general it reduces the number of stupid people.
It's a long term process. Things won't change overnight. But if Hawaii is going to be more than a place for rich people to spend money while everyone does their laundry and changes their sheets, then something different has to be done.
Chasing the astronomy industry away would only be a long term loss for everyone.
Posts: 7
Threads: 1
Joined: May 2013
I've been on the crazy mainland for 3 months, and it is refreshing to read punaweb again. Most refreshing is to read Eric's response to pahoated about what the TMT has done/can do for the small island of Hawaii. We are so isolated and whatever TMT can bring and is bringing to our island children is encouraging. Scholarships, in classroom experiences and monies that would otherwise be non-existent.
The confounding ignorance as is exemplified by our current national political arena, is enough to convince us that we must be creative thinkers and problem solvers, choosing what will make Hawaii a beacon of intelligent pursuits, far reaching solutions and not just what is good for" Me and mine" but what is ultimately good for all our children and grandchildren. And the TMT project will and has already promised to do that.Mahalo and aloha to all
quote:
Originally posted by phanor
quote:
Originally posted by Eric1600
quote:
Originally posted by pahoated
What bugs me about TMT is what does it do for me, as a resident of this island? So far, it has done diddly-squat positively and truckloads negatively.
I'm going to ignore your repeated demonstration of confusion over astronomy and just comment about how the TMT helps you.
Since they started construction (even after it was halted again) the TMT has been pouring money into the education funds in Hawaii. In good faith they've spent over $3 million dollars without any promised benefits.
Have you noticed all the high schools that are suddenly competing in robotics competitions? Some even nationally? There are also 30 students employed now at high-tech companies around the islands. Not to mention the new scholarships given out to students in STEM fields.
What does this do for you? It reduces the number of unskilled people sitting around with nothing better to do than cause trouble or do drugs or both. It changes peoples mentality and gives hope to many more who see other, productive possibilities and things they can do with their lives. In general it reduces the number of stupid people.
It's a long term process. Things won't change overnight. But if Hawaii is going to be more than a place for rich people to spend money while everyone does their laundry and changes their sheets, then something different has to be done.
Chasing the astronomy industry away would only be a long term loss for everyone.
Posts: 1,930
Threads: 71
Joined: Jun 2012
The UH Hilo lease for the observatories expires in 2033.
"UH’s existing lease for the mountain expires in 2033; a new lease would be needed for astronomy to continue beyond that date. An environmental impact statement for a new lease is on hold amid the protests.
Every observatory now has to provide evidence for a decommissioning fund. Before then, 3 observatories are being decommissioned and dismantled, the sites abolished for re-use.
This judge is looking at her case strictly as a permit compliance case. If she finds the permit process was incomplete, she is going to do the same thing any other judge does with a permit problem -- send them back to the beginning of the permit process and get it right. Very likely, that is going to happen here, TMT Corp will be looking at going all the way back to a new EIS, new negotiations UHH, then starting the 2 to 3 year permit process again. Maybe not, but it looks like what is happening.
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
Posts: 2,244
Threads: 396
Joined: Nov 2011
pahoated, have to somewhat agree.
Aaron Stene also brings up the Master lease, and I agree with his assessment.
FYI: Back to topic (Contested Case Hearing Status)
*Update - Snipped - more at link:
http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/news...ng-motions
Riki May Amano, hearings officer for the Thirty Meter Telescope contested case, will preside over another hearing Aug. 29 on pending motions, including a proposed protective order for Gov. David Ige and other state officials.
Amano met with parties in the quasi-judicial hearing Friday in the Hawaii Community College cafeteria and heard arguments on motions to dismiss the state’s legal counsel and restart the process with a new construction permit, in addition to other matters.
Amano, a retired judge, said she will conduct a site visit Sept. 26 to Mauna Kea, where the telescope is proposed to be built, and still intends to have evidentiary hearings in October.
Attorney Richard Wurdeman, who represents the original contested case petitioners, argued the state attorneys advising the state Board of Land and Natural Resources and Amano are not impartial, citing their involvement in prosecuting protesters on the mountain last year. He said the state should hire outside legal counsel.
“It’s not about convenience,” he said. “It’s about doing what’s right.”
David Louie, a former state attorney general attending the meeting as special legal counsel for the state, said there is a “heavy burden” to proving that legal counsel should be dismissed.
Wurdeman also argues a new conservation district use permit application should be submitted since the original document from 2010 listed TMT Observatory Corp. The observatory project is now under a separate entity, the TMT International Observatory.
Amano said she would take those matters under advisement and issue a ruling.
The proposed protective order to be heard later this month would exempt Ige, BLNR Chairwoman Suzanne Case and board member Stanley Roehrig from being called as witnesses. The hearing will take place at the HCC cafeteria.
Judge Amano remains the best person for this assignment, although both the protestors/protectors and the UH want her removed, she is more than qualified to handle this damn mess.
(*Reference UH filing for her removal 
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/32129...ficer-grow
Watching for the upcoming document filings prior to the next hearing/meeting.
JMO.
|
