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the USA will be mocked as weak and incompetent
More likely the USA will be sued. I can hardly wait.
Aloha has been lost and I feel sad that Hawaiians can not find a better way forward
Considering how they've been treated, I can hardly blame them. From another thread:
But this is where Boteilho's familial succession will end. None of Boteilho's daughters -- ages 2, 5, and 10 -- are eligible to inherit the land their great-grandfather settled in 1951. Simply put: They don't have enough Hawaiian blood.
Here we are, a century later, STILL taking their land from them. Gee, I wonder why they're so upset?
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quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
Considering how they've been treated, I can hardly blame them. From another thread:
But this is where Boteilho's familial succession will end. None of Boteilho's daughters -- ages 2, 5, and 10 -- are eligible to inherit the land their great-grandfather settled in 1951. Simply put: They don't have enough Hawaiian blood.
Here we are, a century later, STILL taking their land from them. Gee, I wonder why they're so upset?
I think this is a distortion of the issue. Maunakea is not a place where people can live and there is no claim of ownership. The astronomy industry is not the resort or realestate development industry who are the real drivers of the problem you cite as well as population growth in general.
The idea that Hawaiians are eligible to apply for 99-year land leases at $1 per year on the condition that they prove they are at least half-blooded Hawaiians is a completely different issue.
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The idea that Hawaiians are eligible to apply for 99-year land leases at $1 per year... is a completely different issue.
Yes, exactly. The Hawaiian people may have legitimate claims and complaints, but it's been far too easy for certain parties (Protectors, OHA & DHHL for example) to draw attention away from the real cause of the problem, and place it front and center on the TMT which is nothing but an extraneous symbol of their concerns because:
Maunakea is not a place where people can live and there is no claim of ownership
I would like to see someone, perhaps PUEO come forward and clearly define and separate the issues, if it's at all possible at this point in the proceedings.
“We’ve got to be as clear-headed about human beings as possible, because we are still each other’s only hope,” James Baldwin to Margaret Mead in the book A Rap On Race
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
I would like to see someone, perhaps PUEO come forward and clearly define and separate the issues, if it's at all possible at this point in the proceedings.
That's pretty much exactly what is going on in the case right now. It was in the list of documents that opihikao posted.
https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/mk/files/2016/09...Issues.pdf
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I think this is a distortion of the issue.
Some would say it's merely making use of the available leverage.
Put another way: the overthrow was 123 years ago; Statehood was 57 years ago. These issues should long since have been settled.
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Kalakoa, you brought the argument up. Legally it was settled a long time ago and the court ruling in this case affirms that where Doc 273 was granted by the judge in Doc 281.
https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/mk/files/2016/09...Issues.pdf
quote:
The following issues will not be addressed in this contested case hearing inasmuch as:
(1) they are not germane to the above - identified issues relating to this contested case hearing;
and (2) the Hearing Officer has already been found to have subject matter jurisdiction to conduct
the contested case hearing, as authorized by the Board; see, Minute Order 14 Denying Dwight J.
Vicente’s Motion to Disqualify Judge Riki Mae[sic] Amano (Ret.); State of Hawaii Lack of
Jurisdiction to Hear This Contested Case Hearing [Doc. 124], citing the U.S. Supreme Court
decision in Hawaii v. Office of Hawaiian Affairs, 556 U.S. 163 (2009):
* The sovereignty of the Kingdom of Hawai’i or any other issues relating to the purported existence of the Kingdom of Hawai’i;
* Challenges to the legal status of the State of Hawai’i; and
* Challenges to the State’s ownership of and title to the lands related to this contested case hearing
Emotionally sure, you can argue anything, but the court is not going to entertain it.
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That's pretty much exactly what is going on in the case right now.
https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/mk/files/2016/09...Issues.pdf
Thanks Eric1600.
Emotion, confusion, and misinformation have maneuvered this issue into the rocks and bushes for far too long.
“We’ve got to be as clear-headed about human beings as possible, because we are still each other’s only hope,” James Baldwin to Margaret Mead in the book A Rap On Race
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
A precious and irrecoverable opportunity poised to be gifted to this community at vast expense carried by others is about to be squandered and lost forever. Why? Because a few people are 'offended' by this gift. We in Hawaii appear childish, spoiled and pathetic on a world stage of people with real problems making real attempts to address them. That means all of us. Us includes me. In the lawyered anarchist PC environment here, if a single person in Hawaii is 'offended', all work must stop until they have had their day, or month, or decades in court. People who cannot deal with 'offensive ideas' like living in the 21st Century need to go spend more time in a room with pictures of cute smiling bunnys and red flags on the walls and light up another one. And another one. And another one. If everyone in a burning theater has the right to block the exit and lecture the others on their pet peeve, how many do you think will get out alive? We are going to lose this thing folks, and if you think that will ever in history be anything other than a blot and a shame on us all, you are smoking some very badass stuff. The future is not going to be like today, and someday your descendents here will ask "What the F were you thinking?"
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You can't fix Samsara.
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Legally it was settled a long time ago
"Legally" in the "because we said so" sense. How many years did it take to establish treaties with the Native Americans who "owned" North America before the USA was created? Did the Native Americans "agree" that the matter was "settled long ago"?
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quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
"Legally" in the "because we said so" sense. How many years did it take to establish treaties with the Native Americans who "owned" North America before the USA was created? Did the Native Americans "agree" that the matter was "settled long ago"?
Yup, that's sort of how these things have worked since humans started spreading around the planet and we're all guilty of it. There are examples everywhere, from the tiniest of villages to large countries. You can either be mad about the unchangeable past and feel like a victim and try to punish other groups, or find a better path forward.
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