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Thanks for your input shockwave rider. How would you create an email and mailing address list while retaining privacy of the adrs's if you use Facebook etc? The coconut wireless and the mailbox flyers may be ineffective when half live off island. We created a mailing address list, and most have provided their email adrs and ph #'s willingly along with their petitions.
You're entitled to your opinion regarding TomK. He's entitled to his opinions. Let's leave it at that.
The board mtg agenda's been posted and interesting timing with the discussions on Punatalk about the recall. Dist 5 rep now wants to propose a policy change to circumvent the bylaws on the recall process. This will be her 3rd attempt to thwart the recall process outside of what the bylaws provides a district rep involved in a recall process.
The first was an intimidating and threatening legal approach, hopefully not paid for on our dime. This latest maneuver validates why people in her district want to recall her, and why others outside of this district are supportive.
If the board wants to recall a district rep, it takes 6 board votes. The ofc of course has access to the applicable members' adrs's, and prepares the ballots and mails them off using association monies. Then a 3rd party should receive and do the ballot count whether it's a board prompted recall or a Dist members' recall.
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quote:
Originally posted by mermaid53
Thanks for your input shockwave rider. How would you create an email and mailing address list while retaining privacy of the adrs's if you use Facebook etc? The coconut wireless and the mailbox flyers may be ineffective when half live off island. We created a mailing address list, and most have provided their email adrs and ph #'s willingly along with their petitions.
You're entitled to your opinion regarding TomK. He's entitled to his opinions. Let's leave it at that.
The board mtg agenda's been posted and interesting timing with the discussions on Punatalk about the recall. Dist 5 rep now wants to propose a policy change to circumvent the bylaws on the recall process. This will be her 3rd attempt to thwart the recall process outside of what the bylaws provides a district rep involved in a recall process.
The first was an intimidating and threatening legal approach, hopefully not paid for on our dime. This latest maneuver validates why people in her district want to recall her, and why others outside of this district are supportive.
If the board wants to recall a district rep, it takes 6 board votes. The ofc of course has access to the applicable members' adrs's, and prepares the ballots and mails them off using association monies. Then a 3rd party should receive and do the ballot count whether it's a board prompted recall or a Dist members' recall.
I can't tell if you are just trolling or if these are sincere questions, but I will ere on the side of the angels and assume you are sincere.
Google gives out email addresses for free, so it could be something like district5recall@... People can create facebook groups that are not tied to their personal page, so they can be anonymous, same thing with a free web page. Reaching the half of the district who live on island through flyers, forums like this one, community facebook pages etc is better than not reaching them at all. Generally off island owners don't get involved anyway, so my guess is you will have low return rates from them no matter how you contact them. But most of the people I know who live here are more than ready to support a recall, so contacting those people would probably be worthwhile, even if the same methods don't work for reaching the off island owners. In successful community organizing outreach is usually done using a wide variety of methods, not just one, unless you only want to reach a small group of people, then you tailor your message to that group.
That said, the whole way the recall supporters have handled this thread comes across as paranoid and hostile to those who were just asking reasonable questions about what was going on. Too bad, it will probably negatively impact the return rate on the petitions.
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"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
The subject of the recall and her supporters have consistently ignored all efforts to force them to play by the established rules. They have ignored the by-laws in matters ranging from financial reporting to personnel matters to election procedure. So what makes you think they will comply with the by-laws when it comes to the recall process? Mermaid has already informed us that they appear to be preparing thwart it, and that is both typical and predictable.
The only useful thing that anyone can do at this point is find a pro bono attorney to file a class action suit calling for receivership and/or the dissolution of the HPPOA. I could get behind that, but I don't how to start the process.
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shockwave rider,
TomK wrote: As you brought up ethics, I'd like to know how this "committee" obtained the mailing addresses of people.
This alludes to the recall committee, who are doing a legit and honest recall petition process, as being unethical in how they obtained the addresses. That's throwing shade and there was no reason for it. There's nothing wrong in how we obtained the addresses and this seems to be the main object of discussion for a couple of you. We did a good job as a matter of fact and I'm proud of how we are handling the petition process.
shockwave rider wrote: I can't tell if you are just trolling or if these are sincere questions....That said, the whole way the recall supporters have handled this thread comes across as paranoid and hostile to those who were just asking reasonable questions about what was going on. Too bad, it will probably negatively impact the return rate on the petitions.
More shade, who's calling the kettle black? They were honest questions... and then you summed it up w/a negative remark.
Johnd, if you still want to get in touch w/this recall committee, please leave contact info in your profile.
Chunkster, It could cost a 5 figure dollar amt just to get the ball rolling if an atty couldn't be found to do pro bono. And the time involved. ie. As you know the lawsuit is going on 2 years now w/no light at the end of the tunnel yet. The atty's are dragging their feet and wracking up their bill. And how do you gather all the people together who are interested? Leave a contact # or email adrs in someone's profile here on PT? How much $ is everyone willing to chip in and for how long?
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Mermaid, I get your point about costs. That's why I suggested the pro bono route. Surely there is an attorney living in HPP who is fed up with all this by now. Failing that, I'm willing to pony up a few hundred dollars, but you are right about the organizational difficulties of raising and allocating the funds a paid attorney would require.
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"TomK wrote: As you brought up ethics, I'd like to know how this "committee" obtained the mailing addresses of people."
"This alludes to the recall committee, who are doing a legit and honest recall petition process, as being unethical in how they obtained the addresses. That's throwing shade and there was no reason for it. There's nothing wrong in how we obtained the addresses and this seems to be the main object of discussion for a couple of you. We did a good job as a matter of fact and I'm proud of how we are handling the petition process."
I mentioned ethics not because I'm accusing anyone of being unethical, but because it's relevant. Who is this so-called "recall committee" and what process was used to obtain people's mailing addresses?
You can answer that nothing was wrong in how you obtained addresses or whether it was a good job, but that says nothing at all. I'm asking how it was done. It's not a hard question.
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what process was used to obtain people's mailing addresses?
Property owner is a matter of public record; the tax website allows the creation of mailing lists. Homeowner's association (not HPP, not that it matters) mails me postcards and such despite the fact that I never "gave" them my mailing address. I dare suggest this issue is a red herring.
subject of the recall and her supporters have consistently ignored all efforts to force them to play by the established rules. ... what makes you think they will comply with the by-laws when it comes to the recall process?
Wasn't the developer of HPP required to pave all the roads prior to final plat approval? They ignored the rules, thereby creating this problem, and now, suddenly, 50 years later, people are expecting compliance with the rules?
Meanwhile, everyone is busy bickering about "supposed to follow the rules" and "how much money can we raise for lawyers" while somehow refusing to acknowledge the original problem. Doesn't HPP collect something a couple $million/year in mandatory dues? If you're not paving the roads anyway, how about sue County with that money? Oh, right, far more important to let an illegal board abscond with the funds. Because that's how things have always been done in the vast "agricultural" subdivisions of lower Puna.
What's that old quote about "insanity is doing the same thing (again), but expecting different results?"
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TomK, the district boundaries are a matter of public record, as are the tax parcel records which contain mailing addresses of property owners. By comparing the two, it would be tedious, but not impossible, to compile a pretty accurate mailing list. I somehow doubt the HPPOA handed over one of their lists for this purpose.
Having said that, I wish Mermaid would clarify this point so we can move on.
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quote:
Originally posted by mermaid53
shockwave rider,
TomK wrote: As you brought up ethics, I'd like to know how this "committee" obtained the mailing addresses of people.
This alludes to the recall committee, who are doing a legit and honest recall petition process, as being unethical in how they obtained the addresses. That's throwing shade and there was no reason for it. There's nothing wrong in how we obtained the addresses and this seems to be the main object of discussion for a couple of you. We did a good job as a matter of fact and I'm proud of how we are handling the petition process.
shockwave rider wrote: I can't tell if you are just trolling or if these are sincere questions....That said, the whole way the recall supporters have handled this thread comes across as paranoid and hostile to those who were just asking reasonable questions about what was going on. Too bad, it will probably negatively impact the return rate on the petitions.
More shade, who's calling the kettle black? They were honest questions... and then you summed it up w/a negative remark.
Johnd, if you still want to get in touch w/this recall committee, please leave contact info in your profile.
Chunkster, It could cost a 5 figure dollar amt just to get the ball rolling if an atty couldn't be found to do pro bono. And the time involved. ie. As you know the lawsuit is going on 2 years now w/no light at the end of the tunnel yet. The atty's are dragging their feet and wracking up their bill. And how do you gather all the people together who are interested? Leave a contact # or email adrs in someone's profile here on PT? How much $ is everyone willing to chip in and for how long?
It is fundamentally dishonest to string together different parts of someone's post as if they were one sentence. and then respond to that invented hybrid sentence. As I have stated before, I support the recall, but your attacks on us for asking questions and dishonest way of misquoting people isn't going to bring anyone to your side. To bad the cause is just, but the people defending it come across as paranoids.
If it was reasonable for you to ask that the return address on the petition be removed and kept private, then it is reasonable to ask how you got people's equally private addresses. I really doubt anyone spent hours and hours going through the tax records to get them.
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It is fair to say that HPPOA operates like a private entity not as a true community association.HPPOA does not serve the needs of the owners now nor then. Its about time that we as owners take control. All these concerns about the bylaws and the rest of all the bikering is just a tired distraction from the real issue: the association will not build the promised roads, the association rakes millions of dollars from homeowners and is not able to mantain the roads we have. The circus must stop. What we need is to communicate with other owners to start a class action lawsuit agaisnt the association and its board members for dupping the rest of us with roads and maintanence program that is not going to materialize. The money they rake in is not for them to withold for whatever other scheme they choose; that income needs to be spent on improving the roads and paving the subdivision or the Association needs to fold and be given to a court appointed administrator, end of story. There are many capable attorneys in Honolulu that may take the case on a contingency basis, we are talking about a class action suit to demand on the behalf of the property owners old and new who were and are taken for a huge ride.In addition it merits to investigate whether the county failed the homeowners by approving the subdivision without adequate planning and sue them as well. We can talk ourselves blue in the face about this board or another... it does not matter who is in the board anymore, the association failed a long time ago and it is time to wake up to reality and have the courage to change.
jdo
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