TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

I think you'd be well served by learning to appreciate the differences between folks and practicing the art of kindness towards them.

It would be a better world, wouldn't it?
glinda, may I ask you your opinion on a few other subjects?

1) How do you feel about people who post (or in public speak) about topics that may include some facts, or perhaps some facts known to be true, some not, but the overall comment is not possible to substantiate? Who offer up their personal version of a new and expanding trend in social media, Fake News?

2) How do you feel about people who repeat these comments time and again?

3) What do you think about people who are asked to explain those comments, or provide additional information, or clarify a point, but never respond?

I think, personally, that it would also be a better world if we tried to speak the truth, to the best of our knowledge, and if questioned would take a moment to review new information that may have been presented to us, then take another moment to reconsider what we've said and what we might say in the future. With a new-found openness to extend ideas and opinions beyond our personal, limited experiences, isn't there the possibility that we'll discover the world is bigger, maybe better than we realized?
Thanks

"Don't argue with someone who prefers to be wrong." -Last Aphorisms

[Guest]

Original Punaticbychoice question to me here:

Tell us gypsy69, why are you opposed to TMT?
A short reply is required.
No BS.
Why?

Punaticbychoice, You gave me orders, conditions and stipulations on how to answer your question, why? Was my answer for you, by not answering short enough? Please Do your homework and look up any Punaweb thread involving the TMT project to see where I stand and why.

I am not opposed to the TMT project or the greater knowledge, education, and science that may come with it. I am against the further development and desecration on the summit of Mauna Kea. I am against the continued oppression of the Hawaiian people and the potential threats projects like the TMT may bring them. I believe in Protecting our greater resources for the coming "Hawaiian" generations before they are all lost, used up or sold, including the Hawaiian race itself. I believe in all peoples rights and that means Hawaiians rights too. I believe in the laws and that they should be followed by everyone including our state many rep's.

How come no one representing the BLNR, DLNR, University, TMT, OHA, Mayor, or State ever really sincerely apologized for this mess or the TMT's permits having being issued before the court ordered hearing and the mismanagement of Mauna Kea?
How come several Hawaiian Protectors had to be embarrassed, arrested and harassed for protesting the illegal equipment and ground breaking processes?

The astronomy community as a whole is not "Pele" and should not continue to make promises they have not, do not, or can not keep. The new astronomy temple "TMT" should not be built on top of the Hawaiians age old Temple or sacred ground. Mauna Kea has become the astronomy capital of the world without the TMT project, partly because of the Hawaiian people's way of giving, sharing, and their overall spirit of Aloha. It's now time to scratch the back of the Hawaiians, show them the respect they have so long deserved and allow them their culture, traditions, education, and future to be restored. Punaticbychoice, These are some of my many opinion's on to why I am against the building of the TMT atop Mauna Kea Today.

Mauna Kea is a home today to so much more than the astronomy community and I would like to see it remain that way. Peace.
https://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/HCV/maunakea.html

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Very well explained gypsy, thank you.

I have one question.
What continued oppression and potential threats to the Hawaiian people do you see are caused by the TMT project, either directly or indirectly? I ask because although I think I understand their preference for zero tolerance involving any incursion into what some consider sacred land, I don't understand how the TMT would oppress them as a people, how it might keep them from living their day to day lives in the manner in which they would like to lead their lives, or threaten them in a way that would create an environment of fear and intimidation?

"Don't argue with someone who prefers to be wrong." -Last Aphorisms

[punaticbychoice]

gypsy69:
You are offended by my question?
Tough.
You are not opposed to the benefits of TMT?
But yet TMT is an oppression of the Hawaiian People?
I support TMT. Period.For the benefit of us all- now and in the future.
I think the Hawaiian people who are now a minority in Hawaii-
have had a chance to try for recognition / autonomy
for some years now and have failed to be able to do so for whatever reason(s).
Don't try to and hurt us all here in a fit of pique about either TMT or geothermal or whatever.
I do appreciate and thank you for your belated reply.
But we still disagree.

[Guest]

Mahalo Punaticbychoice, I agree.

This is an interesting dated article that shares some insight to what may be causing some of our differences of opinion. The article also mentions or high lights some of the similar impacts or struggles We are seeing or facing here in Hawaii.

http://www.hanksville.org/voyage/misc/MtGraham.html

HOTPE, great questions like yours sometimes need to have magnets on my fridge and be answered some Hawaiian time later. Yours has its magnets as well as signs of good cheese. Mahalo, and happy holidays to you though.

[kalakoa]

Protecting our greater resources for the coming "Hawaiian" generations

Knowledge is also a resource.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

signs of good cheese and hurtful traps

The questions are sincere. I'm unable to understand or answer them from my own experience, my interaction with Hawaiian people (a fair number), and from comparing the situation in Hawaii to the history of oppression and threats as it has occurred between other cultures, or during wartime, or the slavery of black people, etc.

Perhaps you've seen it in places here in Hawaii that I haven't.

[PaulW]

What oppression? What threats? It's a telescope.

Say what you really think.

[TomK]

glinda - I'm curious:

"Maybe your repeatedly demonstrated lack of respect for all things different than yourself has created a situation in which those you have shown the most disrespect towards don't feel your questions warrant a response.

Why would someone that you refer to by saying "you can't reason with unreason" feel motivated to feed the fire you itch to fuel with your bigotry? It's as if you want the freedom to be an a**hole on one hand but not be accountable for it on the other. Whereas in the real world your words stick, they mean something, and people have feelings about them. And, whether or not you want to acknowledge it most of them are negative. I think you'd be well served by learning to appreciate the differences between folks and practicing the art of kindness towards them. Maybe then they might be willing to speak with you."

You've been a member of Punaweb for just two months, made very few posts, yet many of them try to turn the subject into personal issues rather than discussing the subject. Are you here wanting to be a new moderator or pretending not to be someone who posts under another identity? Or do you have another reason that you would like to explain to everyone?

Personally, I think it's quite impolite to barge in, late in the day, to a meeting where you don't know anyone and tell them how to behave. And then not make any contribution to the meeting itself.

In the meantime, how about answering HOTPE and punaticbychoice's questions?

[punaticbychoice]

TomK:
The question(s) perhaps cannot or do not want to be answered?