Posts: 11,018
Threads: 750
Joined: Sep 2012
It seems you really don't want others to read my points or proof provided.
I can't prevent anyone from reading the points you make. I replied to comments I found pertinent, and suggested the quality of proof is subjective. It's not possible to reply to everything.
I understand that the Traditional Hawaiian culture is puzzling and inconvenient for you
Not at all. What's puzzling and inconvenient is the culture that's fictional and fabricated.
You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
Posts: 2,481
Threads: 10
Joined: Feb 2008
"Some locals didn't even have radios, many were relegated to contact with direct family members only."
So these are the people who define what it means to be Hawaiian? The fact that educated, well read and well informed Hawaiians chose not to protest does not matter?
Posts: 10,216
Threads: 344
Joined: Apr 2009
"This is one reason (among many) I would like to see an NGST in Hawaii but preferably with an organisation that isn't trying to start an internecine war by sowing seeds of division and spreading negative propaganda about Traditional Hawaiians."
The NGST, which became the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST), would not be a good fit for Hawaii. Unless you are planning to blast Hawaii into orbit.
Posts: 14,111
Threads: 424
Joined: Aug 2012
Unless you are planning to blast Hawaii into orbit.
...and so we come back around to PGV...
Posts: 10,216
Threads: 344
Joined: Apr 2009
"Yes, try and remember to use Google Translate first. The setting I believe you're looking for is American English to English English. It's of course a little extra labour, but in the long run worth a lorry full of kippers for the confusion it may avoid."
And there I was trying so hard to use American English so discussions wouldn't end up going arse over tit.
Posts: 10,216
Threads: 344
Joined: Apr 2009
PS. I'm not going to touch the subject of "interstellar mining projects". I mean, seriously?
Good juxtaposition work Gypsy. I appreciate your thoughts and JMOz.
aloha,
pog
Posts: 664
Threads: 67
Joined: Mar 2016
It's not correct to say it's been "planned" for 25 years. We didn't have the technology until Keck was constructed and tested to prove the concept even possible about 23 years ago. After that people begin to think about how to make a large single version. It wasn't until about 10 years ago that the site was chosen. As many testified in the court hearings, there was no indication that Mauna Kea was particularly special to the old traditions and cultures prior to the road being put in and many people "finding religion" there.
Posts: 10,216
Threads: 344
Joined: Apr 2009
The recent TMT contested case hearing really made this clear - the opponents of the TMT and astronomy in general tend to resort to "alternative facts" about the observatories, and often, downright lies. Gypsy is no exception.
Interestingly, the planning for the Hubble Space Telescope began back in the mid-60s, roughly 25 years before it was launched, and they even knew the location of the telescope back then (in fact, you can trace the idea of the HST back into the 1940s). The same for the proposed and currently under-construction extremely large telescopes - those plans go back to the 80s and 90s, but no locations were planned and at that point the technology didn't exist to build them, but you need to start early with the concept otherwise they won't happen.
And since the TMT is largely a US project, the "foreign investing backers" comment is simply insulting, especially as Gypsy has no problem sending his kids to a US mainland university - which gets foreign funding.
