HICoP Rally Saturday Sept. 9th 6-8 pm

[kalakoa]

visiting tourists, the ones who indirectly pay our mortgages

I think you meant "pay for our County employees and Oahu rail".

[MarkD]

Visiting an island paradise for a vacation is a superfluous, elitist activity. All of our visiting tourists, the ones who indirectly pay our mortgages, are in that category.

Agree that all of the very broad activities that tourists engage in recreationally (any many other folks too) are superfluous. This long list includes going to beaches, parks, hikes, zip lines, sunset views, boat rides, luaus, etc. But these activities are not elitist. They are ordinary. Such as hiking to a nature site. About as ordinary as you get.

Helicopter flights are elitist. The Royal Coach, as it were. While 200 to 1,000-plus people visit some of our island destinations, e.g., Akaka Falls, every day, a select few do so by air. The Flying Royal Coach. And the coach announces its presence overhead with loud racket that mars the peace and serenity of these natural destinations.

The most surprising thing about this nationwide debate is how the natural resource managers who run our National Parks have caved to monied helicopter interests. I suppose they are next going to open these public treasures to off-road-vehicles. Dereliction of duty.

https://www.backpacker.com/news-and-even...pter-tours

[kalakoa]

natural resource managers who run our National Parks have caved to monied helicopter interests

How else can they mitigate their funding cuts?

It's all always about money, period. As suggested above: let's upzone all the subdivisions to "residential". The resulting valuation would raise more property tax revenue than the current helicopter tourist revenue, at which point the subdivision residents would actually be able to purchase their desired outcome.

[mermaid53]

quote:

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Originally posted by Obie
Flying VFR they are required to maintain visual contact with the shoreline and the surface.Hard to do that most afternoons when there is usually a band of clouds just off shore.

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Hence what I said yesterday...Some of the busiest times over Kaloli Pt have been during rainy weather, flying lower than 1000' or just under the clouds, and approx 1/2 a mile inland. There's been occasions where they were flying 5 min apart from the same company under those conditions.

[PaulW]

If anti-helicopter people want to be taken seriously then they should at least try to hide their envy of anyone who has more money than them.
Some actual data on the number of flights over a certain spot would be good too.

[MarkD]

If anti-helicopter people want to be taken seriously then they should at least try to hide their envy of anyone who has more money than them.

Do not understand this sentiment at all. One of the primary characteristics of Puna is the disproportionate number of residents who have little concern about money, especially how much money others have. That is a basic nature of this place, compared to Kona, and almost all of Maui, Oahu and Kauai. Counterculture. Off-the-grid. Unconventional. Etc.

Some affluent folks have moved here in recent years, but the hardly changes the basic ethic of Puna.

[geochem]

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkD


Do not understand this sentiment at all. One of the primary characteristics of Puna is the disproportionate number of people who have little concern about money, especially how much money others have.

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Utterly false - there is an abiding contempt by many of the loudest in Puna for those who have "sold out" - by which they mean, the "sell outs" have more money than they do, and/or aspire to an economically secure future.

I won't pretend to know the basis for that contempt, but suspect it is driven more by envy than any real commitment to an earth friendly lifestyle...

[MarkD]

Utterly false -

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Well, you can offer that view, but there is nothing to substantiate it. The broad generalization I made comparing Puna to other areas in the state is correct. It was completely correct in the 1970s when Puna was hippie central. The fact that there are a lot of new people here who might conform to your observation does not mean Puna is not fundamentally different from the rest of Hawaii.

A lot of people in Puna have in effect traded better prosperity (because of general lack of jobs here) for a lifestyle based on peaceful enjoyment of nature. They mostly want to be left alone, do not care about the attractions that most people in Hawaii consider to be essential, e.g. beautiful beaches, and do not want to be bothered by helicopters over their houses.

How much $ the operators earn is irrelevant. Rather surprising that you folks would try to confuse this issue with this nonsense.

[kalakoa]

How much $ the operators earn is irrelevant.

No, it's completely relevant: Hawaii has very little industry, tourism is one of the few things that generates revenue, money drives policy.

[MarkD]

How much $ the operators earn is irrelevant.

No, it's completely relevant: Hawaii has very little industry, tourism is one of the few things that generates revenue, money drives policy.

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I was responding to the nonsensical argument that opposition to helicopters flights is fueled in significant part by jealously over the operators' earnings.

You are attributing my comment to an issue that was not being discussed by me and the 2 posters. (I have no comment on your aspect of the topic.)

Any other objections?