TMT - Contested Case Hearing Status - Hilo

[PaulW]

"his genealogy which is very impressive to say the least"

How can anyone's genealogy be more impressive than anyone else's? Unless there was an alien in there somewhere.

[TomK]

From https://www.hoomanaspamaui.com/protect-m...ees-manao/

"Kumu’s mana’o also reminds us that Mauna Kea is sensitive to metals, they being stuff of the earth. Each mountain is created from a different make-up of earth elements, and in each one, there are specialized crystals that protect the mountain from massive bursts of gas and magnetic field released into the solar wind (called coronal mass ejections). When this process is disturbed by the different pull of the metals being embedded into the mountain (via, say, telescopes), it creates an imbalance in the mountain’s natural rhythms, and the heat and flow of magma is effected. Tons of metal burrowed into the summit will of course change the energetic reactions of the mountain. This kind of disruption in the natural harmony of the ‘aina is not Hawaiian."

If that isn't the most ignorant and stupid piece of physics I've ever heard, I don't know what is. This makes flat-earthers look sensible.

[MarkP]

"If that isn't the most ignorant and stupid piece of physics I've ever heard, I don't know what is. This makes flat-earthers look sensible."

I agree.

"How can anyone's genealogy be more impressive than anyone else's? Unless there was an alien in there somewhere."

I agree with this too. That's what jumped out at me. The US claims to be colorblind and with all our faults we do a better job at it than most other countries. Saying "My particular race is kind and gentle" is exactly logically equivalent to saying "Everyone besides my race is cruel and violent". That's lesson plan 1 from Logic 101. Attempting to qualify the characteristics of race is inherently racist. I am embarrassed for activists when they namedrop and allude to Royalty in their own or anybody else's background.

[MarkD]

Seems that all this is a pretty common sociological discussion. It is not that any group necessarily thinks that their race or culture is better, it is that people in these groups have a shared history that is very different from the history of other groups (and also different from the increasing number of individuals who do not identify with any group). And groups have a history of competing.

Such as the white group or the European group or however you want to define them migrating and moving all over the world (from about 1600 on) to places where native cultures lived for many centuries without new groups. And the incoming group, by dint of better technology or more aggressive behavior, dominates the resources of the new place and forcibly puts the original inhabitants to work.

Our more commonly--and as was the case in Hawaii--simply commandeers the majority of the land, putting the indigenous in the position of either working on the plantations (or some similar site) or going hungry. A pretty effective modus operandi--far more intelligent than outright slavery.

Of course, now in the 21st century, the argument is that everyone must come together and say Let's let bygones be bygones. We are all the same. I suppose this is pretty compelling. But probably easier to accept by the groups with the most money and power than the ones with less, and who have always had much less (comparatively) since strange boats came to their shorelines....

[kalakoa]

not that any group necessarily thinks that their race or culture is better

I think "resistance to change". Many objections to progress seem to revolve around "but I remember when it was just the one-lane dirt road, and that was good enough for me, so there's no need to build anything else" -- as if time can be made to stand still, so that it will forever be the way I remember it, when everything was perfect.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

now in the 21st century, the argument is that everyone must come together

What would you suggest? All islands revert back to a Ni'ihau type of lifestyle? (Ni'ihau is mostly inhabited by Hawaiians, but owned by a white family) Many of the residents there have highly desired solar panels, generators, and iPads only due to gifts from family members who live and work on other islands, as income on Ni'ihau makes those items unaffordable. Do you think a majority of native Hawaiians might choose that over what we now have?

“Facts fall from the poetic observer as ripe seeds.” -Henry Thoreau

[Eric1600]

Apparently the lawyer that was "fired" from the contested case hearings has filed his appeals against the TMT.

http://www.civilbeat.org/2017/11/tmt-per...eme-court/

Richard Wurdeman, an attorney representing some of the opponents, filed a notice of appeal with the state Supreme Court on Monday.

The Board of Land and Natural Resources approved a construction permit in September for the Thirty Meter Telescope. Opponents of the $1.4 billion project say it will desecrate land sacred to some Native Hawaiians, while supporters say it will provide educational and economic opportunities.

[TomK]

My guess is the delaying tactic of having several groups and people being heard won't work with the appeals court, so the attorney who represented them all to start with has been asked to come back for the appeals hearing.

[Eric1600]

Hopefully he can find the time to do it, unlike the court case which he was just too busy to attend.

[kalakoa]

http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/news/loca...s-uh-state

OHA requested in its complaint that the court terminate UH's general lease on the mountain for breach of terms, according to an OHA press release Wednesday.