New Federal law circumvents Hawaii's CCW process

[terracore]

"Almost all of Hawaii's gun crimes are committed using illegal guns, possessed by people that cannot legally own them to begin with."

You mean that prohibition doesn't work? When did this happen?

If the CCW reciprocity passes, we should demand that medical marijuana cards etc follows suit.

[leilanidude]

quote:

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Originally posted by terracore

"Almost all of Hawaii's gun crimes are committed using illegal guns, possessed by people that cannot legally own them to begin with."

You mean that prohibition doesn't work? When did this happen?

If the CCW reciprocity passes, we should demand that medical marijuana cards etc follows suit.

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Doesn't work anywhere else.

Howzit going, Chicago?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Since this topic mainly concerns the ability to extend concealed carry from other states to Hawaii, it got me thinking, what were the laws concerning concealed carry at the time the Constitution and 2nd Amendment were written?

The American Revolution did not sweep away English common law. In fact, most colonies adopted common law as it had been interpreted in the colonies prior to independence, including the ban on traveling armed in populated areas.Thus, there was no general right of armed travel when the Second Amendment was adopted, and certainly no right to travel with concealed weapons. Such a right first emerged in the United States in the slave South decades after the Second Amendment was adopted. Southern murder rates soared as a result.
http://theconversation.com/five-types-of...oved-85364

So if the intentions and laws under which the Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution are used as a guideline, Hawaii is already following the 2nd Amendment guarantees. Perhaps Hawaii should ask that the citizens of other states obey our laws when our residents visit, for the protection and safety of our citizenry?

The Founding Fathers did not intend, or wish for you to carry weapons when you drove and then walked into Pahoa Fresh Fish to order the 3 piece Mahi Mahi.

"Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm." -James Madison, The Federalist Papers, 1787

[PaulW]

Per my understanding they need 60 votes in the Senate to pass this. Unlikely. Phew!

[leilanidude]

The Founding Fathers did not intend, or wish for you to carry weapons when you drove and then walked into Pahoa Fresh Fish to order the 3 piece Mahi Mahi.
---------
It was certainly fine to do so on your horse and walk into a store with your gun. I do not recall reading about "gun-free zones" in early American history.

[terracore]

My high school had a rifle range in the basement. There were never any issues with it, though some time in the 1970's they converted the range to a classroom and a storage area. I learned US history in that rifle range classroom in the 80's and that is ironically where we learned about the Bill of Rights and the second amendment.

Firearms haven't really changed much since then. Firearm laws have changed dramatically (background checks, waiting periods, etc etc). Strange that something that was rarely in the headlines is now a problem, but the "answer" is always more gun control rather than addressing the issues of why people are increasingly using them for violence.

Hawaii concealed carry isn't just about firearms. Last I looked there was a long list of self-defense tools that are illegal to carry.

ETA: deleted poor grammar

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

fine to do so on your horse and walk into a store with your gun. I do not recall reading about "gun-free zones" in early American history.

Some of my comments will by necessity involve American history but only as background in order to (eventually) reach my (entirely) Puna related conclusion. If I walk into the weeds for a moment, I'll try and keep it brief.

leilanidude suggested that in the early American colonies you could carry a gun with you on your horse, almost everywhere. When most of us think of early America, it's the image of a cowboy, with a 6 shooter by his side, kicking up dust outside of Dodge City, or Tombstone. That individual, however, lived 50-100 years after the Constitution was signed. In the 1770's, 90% of the colonists were farmers. They had recently arrived by ship with almost no money, and few possessions. They farmed by hand, or if fortune smiled upon them, they managed to obtain an ox. After many years they might be able to purchase a horse and a rifle for hunting small game.

Those were the conditions faced by American colonists at the time the 2nd Amendment was written. In the latter 1700's most Americans couldn't even afford a gun. Certainly not a pistol, which for all intents and purposes was a useless weapon then, unless you were wealthy and insulted, and needed to fight a duel. There definitely was no such thing as concealed carry with a squirrel rifle.

We in Puna District, driving on Highway 130, in 2017, do not face any dangers remotely similar to those encountered by a colonist-farmer walking, or perhaps riding to a nearby village in 1770. If he was well off, and did carry a weapon, it was a hunting rifle which at four or five feet long could not be concealed. If concealed carry did not even exist when the 2nd Amendment was written, on horseback or otherwise, you can't reasonably claim the 2nd Amendment provides you with the right to conceal a weapon in your Honda Civic today.

Militias in 1770 were formed with the few residents who might own a gun, for general protection of the local neighborhood when required. To be effective, local authorities preferred men who did not consume inordinate amounts of hard cider, and who could follow basic instructions. Hence, well regulated.

We in Puna District do not have a well regulated militia in existence that you could join at this time if you bought a gun under the pretext of 2nd Amendment rights. I will make an assumption, but I don't believe our Hawaii County authorities would encourage the formation of a militia either, as they likely would find such a group more problem than solution in Hawaii in 2017. Any "train of abuses and usurpations,"* or "absolute Despotism"* would more likely come from a bunch of yahoos forming their own back jungle version of a militia, than an overreaching mayor's office or police department.
* see Declaration of Independence


Firearms haven't really changed much since then.
Really?

long list of self-defense tools that are illegal to carry.
In Hawaii? Such as?

[alaskyn66]

|long list of self-defense tools that are illegal to carry.
In Hawaii? Such as?|

I'm thinking slingshot, baseball bat, 2 by 4, coyote pee... etc..

[randomq]

quote:

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Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
Any "train of abuses and usurpations,"* or "absolute Despotism"* would more likely come from a bunch of yahoos forming their back jungle version of a militia, than the mayor's office or police department.[/b]

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Hold up dude, I thought you lived here.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

I thought you lived here.

You're right.
I should have said a GREATER "train of abuses and usurpations."
The jungle yahoos would only be relatively worse, an important distinction.

"Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm." -James Madison, The Federalist Papers, 1787