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Wouldn't a simple warning sign at the trail head negate any liability anyway?
'Private property Enter at your own risk Hazardous terrain'
What's the parking situation there?
Any cars being broken into?
I would also like to go see 8 but out of respect I haven't even tried.
One Thing I can always be sure of is that things will never go as expected.
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MidRambler... Makamae would be a rough hike if you hike directly down Leilani Ave (again, there is also NO parking, so if you are already planning on one rough hike, hiking from the Pahoa Community Center public parking would be a breeze in comparison......so I guess you COULD park at the Community Center & hike the whole way.... & no one should state that is ridiculous, or too hard, as that would be the easiest part of the hike!)
If you were meaning that the hike would start around the backside, you are on private roads & the folks I know from that area have stated (including the family we had staying with us for the 4 months of the eruption & closure) and at many of the Pahoa meetings, that they would rather folks DID NOT go there... although SOME do not mind, some mind having caravans of lookey loo`s.... again, would you want caravans of folks hiking around your area, esp if you are trying to get it "back to some semblance of normal"???
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
Has anyone here done this? Is it becoming more acceptable now?
I have some friends arriving soon from the mainland, I'm trying to steer them towards staying in Leilani Estates and it would be great if they could do this hike. Any tips on where to start from?
Paul, I live in Leilani part-time. Have I done the hike? No. I do not think it is safe, nor do I feel it is appropriate at this time. Is it becoming more acceptable? Only to clueless outsiders, thrill seekers and social media addicts. That said, there is certainly no more consensus on this subject among Leilani landowners than among the posters on this forum. I know some people who would not care if you hiked on their land and I know some who would be very angry and upset.
You can get a good view by driving to the end of Leilani Ave. It's a county road, you can take 5 or 10 minutes to get a good look, then move on. Do not leave shopping carts, suitcases, fast food containers, candles, or any other @#$% on the lava. (I'm just naming what I've seen.) Do not walk up any private driveways. Do not photograph private homes. "It's not about you." And please do not urinate on the lava or the side of the road either. I guess we have to tell people, they don't seem to know.
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No doubt they would object to you being in Leilani at all, even if you're sticking to the county road and they had no legal basis to do so. My point was that if you're already down there at the fissure on Leilani, it's likely no one would further object to you going down Makamae
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Makamae - BAD IDEA. There have been a number of folks already injured by trying to go to F8 starting at the end of Leilani Street. The lave there is full of what are being called, bubbles, that will break and drop you down, cutting you to ribbons. If you insist on doing it, go to South Luana. Do not park there. Have someone drop you off. Walk in a straight line from the end of Luana to the top. Technically you are on Luana street at that point and not on private property. You will notice there is a well defined trail exactly there. Leilani subdivision roads are no different than all of the other subdivisions as being publicly accessible, privately owned. You cannot be ticketed or stopped. However, you may be harassed by residents on those streets.
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For most of my life I have lived where others don't just show up and go traipsing across the land. While at the same time I also have land in Waipio Valley. Land that is across so many streams and beyond so many signs that say if you aren't from here don't go here. And still you would be amazed at how many people come wandering across the loi. At times literally walking through the taro. Up to their knees in mud. With star struck eyes asking how they get to some waterfall or the beach. And I doubt that they ever, not once, considered whose property they are on. Or whose privacy they might be disturbing. They are for the most part respectful, but still they come.
In Waipio some residence and farmers are pretty accepting of this arrangement. After all, what are we going to do? We too are in awe of our surroundings and appreciate the sparkle we see in the eyes of those trying to get to some wonder they are attracted to. While for others, it drives them out of their mind. They want fences, gates, and all sorts of signs. They beg the county to do more. They plead with our state representatives. But try as they might, the tourists keep coming. From what I can tell the answer is in accommodating, in being kind and practicing aloha. After all, that waterfall is there, as is Puu Leilani.
As such I would hope that the folks in Leilani find a way to accept and adjust, and provide for, rather than resist. In the end I believe, based on more than 30 years of watching this drama play out in Waipio, resistance is futile. When all is said and done, if you give folks a path they will follow it. If there is no path they will go every which way. They are just trying to have a good time. Why not accommodate them?
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"As such I would hope that the folks in Leilani find a way to accept and adjust, and provide for, rather than resist. In the end I believe, based on more than 30 years of watching this drama play out in Waipio, resistance is futile. When all is said and done, if you give folks a path they will follow it. If there is no path they will go every which way. They are just trying to have a good time. Why not accommodate them?"
Waipio isn't buried under dozens of feet of lava. There's a difference here and the liability of those owning land under the lava has been pointed out earlier in the thread. What exactly do you want those property owners to do? They've lost their homes and their land and what, you want them to make trails for everyone else? How are they going to do that?
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Glinda: We too are in awe of our surroundings and appreciate the sparkle we see in the eyes of those trying to get to some wonder they are attracted to....From what I can tell the answer is in accommodating, in being kind and practicing aloha.
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Good words. Unfortunately it is a difficult thing these days. I grew up in the S.F. Bay Area where there is hiking abutting most residential areas. Access comes through multiple public fire roads, which invariably have access points near people's homes.
Fully accessible hiking everywhere was a prized community resource.
But then again, we had few tourists back in the day, nor was crime a particularly big problem.
Tourists and thieves (almost invariably locals)--that's the main source of our problems. There's a big overabundance of each.
Affecting not only hiking/access issue, but generally harming the quality of life in Hawaii. What can be done? Little. It's our new reality.
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There's a difference here and the liability of those owning land under the lava has been pointed out earlier in the thread
Is the liability different in Leilani than elsewhere? No. Are the tourists going to find out who owns what and call? No. Is there an attraction? Yes.
It wasn't there when folks came to live in Leilani, but it is now and it ain't going away. Either folks will adjust, accept, and be guided by the precepts of aloha, or not. They will build walls or paths, will create harmony, or resist. Either embrace the change or live with the stress they cause themselves by not embracing it. All I was doing is pointing out that the situation in Leilani is no different than other attractions. Other than the fact that the puu in Leilani kind of imposed itself on the neighborhood. But hey, change happens. If folks think they can wish it all away, or expect "the law" to do it for them, they are fooling themselves.
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"Is the liability different in Leilani than elsewhere?"
Of course it is. Do you expect people to put no trespassing signs out on their lava-covered properties in Leilani? How do they coordinate this with their neighbors? What happens if some hiker suffers a serious injury on one of these people's properties and the hiker sues them?
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quote:
Originally posted by TomK
"Is the liability different in Leilani than elsewhere?"
Of course it is.
I suspect you have no idea how silly that sounds. Do you have examples of actual cases of this kind? We’ve had people traipsing across lava flows for what seems like forever and getting bust up in all sorts of ways and I don’t recall one lawsuit resulting from any of it. Do you?
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